cool topic idea (atleast I think)

[stm113]

I was thinking that it'd be cool to have a discussion that could kinda describe guitar amp tones. Like what elements make up that "British" sound, or what's the characteristics of German amps, What is the American sound & is it anything different from the California sound. what's the tone of EL 34s, 6L6s, EL 84s, what about varying gain stages & diode clipping vs. A pedal for boosting. What is cascading gain & how does it impact tone etc....

I think its a cool topic in its own right but also for here especially because let's face it...we look to the MTS stuff usually to capture the sound or vibe of other amps.

 

[Slashpepper]

I've been thinking of starting something like this for a while as I feel like when someone says"fizzy" (insert any type of tone description here) tone they mean something completely different to what I do when I say it.

May be interesting to get people to describe some sound files of different sounds without reading each others and see how similar/different they all are.

 

[RADE01]

Yeah good idea, then we can see if we're on the same page in describing tone, or way off.
Some people think fizzy is a good thing, and some(most, I think) think it's a bad thing.

 

[m0jo]

A little bit of fizz can be nice

 

[stm113]

I think I myself like some fizz, or maybe its hair that I like. The best way I know to describe it when I run my 5150 through an oversized Mesa 4x12 w/V30s and I set the mids on about 7, treble 2-3 & the presence on 8-9... its not too bright but its got that crisp bite to it..man I love that

 

[stm113]

I think too that fizz is getting a bad wrap thanks to solid statr modelers... it seems they try to add fizz to make up for the lack of that "glassy" tube bite you get from tube power...well that and I think the anti-fizz movement also got some heft from Dual Rec's, they have that bite but they're like F you all the time & you can't tame them down...

But I still would love to get some talk going on about amps tone...what's the German amp sound based on?onions

 

[Nightdare]

How I rate 'tone'

-"Fizz"
In a good way means some more sizzle in the top end (like the bubbles in a sodaglass)
In a bad way as if you just captured a bee under a glass and shaked the fkr
Too much fizz usually a sign of overprocessing or cutting too much mids
If I were to percieve it as a waveform it would be a spikey saw, too much fizz a VERY spikey saw


-"Grain/Grind" (generally known as "Bark" though I understand this as the level of mids, not the character)
Midrange 'fizz' akin to a revving chainsaw (High mids - grain) or a hole being drilled in a wall (Low mids - grind)
By the time these become 'bad' it's an electrical problem
If I were to percieve it as a waveform it would be Square for Grain, Rounded Square for Grind

'lack of' would steer more towards it's exact opposite:

-"Liquid/Thick"
If 'grain/grind'to your ears is like soda in your throat, 'Liquid/Thick' is chocolate milk
the difference between the 2 is aggression
I guess we are looking at a triangle waveform here

Take away some more highs and you have warm chocolate milk, AKA
"Mellow" though in all fairness I define 'mellow' as the lower gain version of "Smokey"
As a waveform it would probably be more of a Sine wave

-I do not equate my comparison to real soundwaves, only the way one would see them on paper and interpret them

 

[Slashpepper]

Nightdare, mind finding some online links to demonstrate the tones you mean audibly?

 

[RADE01]

I think I myself like some fizz, or maybe its hair that I like. The best way I know to describe it when I run my 5150 through an oversized Mesa 4x12 w/V30s and I set the mids on about 7, treble 2-3 & the presence on 8-9... its not too bright but its got that crisp bite to it..man I love that

Well in that case maybe I like fizz.
But sometimes I wonder if people are referring to presence or treble in a distorted tone. I'm not saying you are.
Definitely some speakers are "fizzier" than others.

 

[Nightdare]

Nightdare, mind finding some online links to demonstrate the tones you mean audibly?

Too lazy ATM

But fizz: 80's rack setups and studio post proccesing

Grain/Grind: Marshalls

Liquid: Mesa Boogies

Smokey/Mellow: Not really amps, but think Gary Moore's "Still got the blues"or most of Santana


Speaking of Gary Moore:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rMhfo7nWukA
We can debate if he's Smokey or Grinding, but Scott is the Fizz in there

 

[ibenhad]

Too many variables and we all have different ears. Different body woods, strings, pickups, 500k pots vs 250k and speakers all change what we each hear in our individual listening environments.

If we post clips of what we feel sounds fizzy, grainy, woofy, woody, airy, hairy and a million other descriptive terms maybe we all would be more on the same description plan..... Har har

Kinda like those spark plug pictures that show a fouled plug and all the other issues a plug could see...

 

[ibenhad]

Too many variables and we all have different ears. Different body woods, strings, pickups, 500k pots vs 250k and speakers all change what we each hear in our individual listening environments.

If we post clips of what we feel sounds fizzy, grainy, woofy, woody, airy, hairy and a million other descriptive terms maybe we all would be more on the same description plan..... Har har

Kinda like those spark plug pictures that show a fouled plug and all the other issues a plug could see...

 

[stm113]

I agree that tone is 100% in the eye of the beholder...best example I can think of is the tone on the intro to Life In The Fast Lane by The Eagles... I hate it! The top and the mid isn't so bad but man the bottom end is a mess, all muddy and mushy kinda like when a 4 wheel drive bogs down in a swamp....

What I was really hoping to get out of this thread though was more talk about the difference in amps signature or character sound especially in context of region.. ie the Britt sound or LA Sound etc...and maybe some good listening examples of how to understand it.

Like I'd say to some one who wanted to understand what a grainy rock guitar tone is to check out the Dokken Back for the Attack Album especiall Kiss of Death...that's grain @ its finest in my opinion....I know by the way that tone is Marshall but I once read an interview where George said that the Boss DS-1 was always his secret weapon.

Can anyone explain gain stages & how cascading works & its impact on your tone/feel?