modules- and mastervolume balance => major tone differenc

[m0jo]

Hi dudes and dudettes!

I just rediscovered this:
The balance between your modules' volumes and master volume creates an enormous tonal difference!

Master on full and controlling the volume with the modules sounds much better than say having the master at 12 o clock.

I noticed that the best tones (IMO) are to be had the other way around: The module's volume wide open and controlling the volume with the master!
Especially on my Sloogie (Salvado/Deadplate hybrid) module this makes it breath (even more) fire!

So for recording I'd definitely recommend trying that!
For live it's not that practical so master volume maxed and modules controlling volume would be best I'd think.

- End of service anouncement -

Just wanted to share my findings.
I know people here run the master full, but maybe they've never tried it with the modules maxed

 

[m0jo]

Discovered that the first day I had mine.... Dimed Power tubes always adds to tone....

No this is not about the power tubes.
The volume stays the same!

Example:
module on half volume, master maxed = module maxed, master on half = module on 3/4ths and master on 3/4ths

So you have the amp at the same level, power tubes working just as hard, but the pots are maxed or not.
I guess it's kind of like having your guitar volume rolled back a hair, there's not much volume difference but a bit rounder sound.

Now I wonder what would happen if you were to bypass the master volume
Like removing the tone pots in your guitars compared to running them wide open.

I have taken out all my tone pots, I've noticed it's like the difference between good and great cables, more complete high end.

 

[Vince]

I used to run my Marshalls the same way.... if they had a Master Volume. I adjust the volume via the preamp volume. It adds life to the tone IMO. The power tubes are not working with full signal but they are amplifying it like they are. It works for me....

 

[m0jo]

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7181889/m0jo%20mastervolume%20test.mp3

Here's a little test, 3x the same riff but different settings:
1: master maxed
2: module maxed
3: master @ 12 o clock

I tried to keep the levels about the same, so you can hear the tonal difference.
Try and guess which module it is

I think I'm going to mod my RM4 .. slap a push-pull pot in there for a true-bypassable master volume.

 

[Vince]

Module maxed rules! Second is Master Maxed and lastly the 12 o setting.

Going to have to experiment some more....

Module? I don't have it whatever it is but lots of saturation that's for sure! :lol:

 

[m0jo]

Module maxed rules! Second is Master Maxed and lastly the 12 o setting.

Going to have to experiment some more....

Module? I don't have it whatever it is but lots of saturation that's for sure! :lol:

Haha yeah definitly the module maxed for me too!
I can see a lot of metalheads liking the master maxed more.

It's the Sloogie
Gain isn't even maxed :lol: it's at 2 o clock, and tight switch set to tightest (so less bass before gainstages = bit less gain).
Funny thing is, the definition at full gain + loose is still a squillion times better than the XTC ever manages .. even at 1/3rd gain!
The settings are:
Gain: 2 o clock
Bass: 3 o clock
Mid: 4 o clock (almost maxed)
Treble: 2 o clock

Just randomly set, but as you see the mids are very high, so anybody not loving mids that much: with them halfway the master maxed is still superior

 

[SacredGroove]

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7181889/m0jo%20mastervolume%20test.mp3

Here's a little test, 3x the same riff but different settings:
1: master maxed
2: module maxed
3: master @ 12 o clock

I tried to keep the levels about the same, so you can hear the tonal difference.
Try and guess which module it is

I think I'm going to mod my RM4 .. slap a push-pull pot in there for a true-bypassable master volume.

Good job man! The results are pretty clear and definitive. 8)

 

[m0jo]

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7181889/m0jo%20mastervolume%20test.mp3

Here's a little test, 3x the same riff but different settings:
1: master maxed
2: module maxed
3: master @ 12 o clock

I tried to keep the levels about the same, so you can hear the tonal difference.
Try and guess which module it is

I think I'm going to mod my RM4 .. slap a push-pull pot in there for a true-bypassable master volume.

Good job man! The results are pretty clear and definitive. 8)

Thanks, I think it's an important aspect to remember.
I'm actually considering re-recording my band's first demo now...
So it fits with the new ones I'm tracking now.
(and I was just done mixing )

 

[Nightdare]

Doesn't this have to do with how hard you're pushing the Phase Inverter
since that comes between module volume and mastervolume

 

[m0jo]

Doesn't this have to do with how hard you're pushing the Phase Inverter
since that comes between module volume and mastervolume

No, the master volume is part of the pre-amp, the phase inverter is part of the power amp.
preamp tubes -> module volume -> master volume -> PI -> powertubes

I'm very sure of this since that demo was recorded with my RM4 into impulses.
No PI or powertubes around

It's really about the effect that the pot has on the tone.
Just like you have brightness mods on volume pots in guitars .. that's what this needs basically.

 

[Hamner1]

I like it. Never occured to me to try this. It's strange I don't really hear a tone difference, but something is different. It sounds more "alive" with the module volume cranked & the master set lower. I previously had the mod set at 1 or 2 oclock & the master at about 11 oclock. I can get the same volume by cranking the mod & setting the master at 9 oclock (maybe 830ish. The only problem I see with this is getting the clean & high gain channel volumes to level out. Well maybe that is for the sound guy to fix. Although the KH1 isn't much lower in volume than the Scary module.

 

[rhequiem]

I have been wondering about how other people approach this, as I am still fairly new to the MTS stuff. I have been running my module volumes at around 1:00-3:00 o'clock to those tubes running warm, and that leaves me with putting the master volume at around 8:00-9:00 o'clock before the walls start to shake. All I have are 2 4x12 cabs right now and a Peavey 50/50 Classic power amp, so things get loud pretty quickly. Maybe I'm the odd man here, but I kind of liked the master at 12:00 on the clip. It sounded more clear and defined to me... I am going to have to experiment with this

 

[VitaminG]

I guess it depends on what your needs are. We're not playing metal and I'm not looking for a super aggressive tone for the cover songs we play.

I've been running my modules almost wide open with the master down for quite a while but last night at practice, I brought the module volumes down and the master up to 12 o'clock. I don't think my Blackface has ever sounded better. And the gain on the XTC & Recto doesn't sound as aggressive now, which is perfect for me. As fun as it is to play with loads of gain, it's really not practical for my band. The Recto with the gain around 9 o'clock gives me a modern crunch without being over the top, so I can use it for some of the retro hard rock songs we do. The XTC is being used for ballsout searing leads.

 

[crankyrayhanky]

seems to be:
module volume= sizzle/aggression
Master volume= mature, wholesome fullbodied

I usually try to get a balance of the two

 

[StratmanR2S]

Too much preamp distortion can get a bit fizzy. I like to adjust the volume of the module with the module volume (wow, what a concept) keeping it around 12:00 -1:00 getting a truer sound out of the module and then (since mine is a 50w) turn it up to bring some power amp distortion into it.

Driving the power tube does change things up some( more bottom more punch and more distortion) so you will have to readjust your settings a bit but thats were all the balls comes from. Some dont like this approach so they have a lot overhead in their setup or they use tubes that are harder to destort like 6550's, but I go for more of a vintage Marshall sound and to really nail it you need both the preamp distortion and the sound of the EL34's getting drivin some.

 

[sweetrock]

That was the thread I was looking for .

But I have to say that the sound demo link doesn't seem to work .

I must say that ,
I prefer higher module levels for aggressive tone .

I have to share my settings .

Talking about XTC Module for a real old school heavy metal tone .

Gain max , bass 3 o'clock , mid 1 o'clock , treble 3 0'clock , module level 3 0'clock , density 12 o'clock , presence 4 o'clock , master volume 9 o'clock with a HM Strat from 1989 to a XXL 4 by 12 Vintage 30s .