Panhead5
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Oh I know they were low gain Cranked Marshall 4 holers for the Steve Clark sound but I've got the stock JTM ,Plexi and SL+ modules and I'm not hearing it .Some tonal advice or a different module suggestion might help me out . :?
Modules for Early Def Lep Tones
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I know Hysteria is all Rockman half rack modules and both Phil and Steve's parts have a ton of layering. Going to be very hard to replicate those sounds with anything other than a Rockman Sustainor and multiple EQ's. Pyromania may have some Rockman too but I'm pretty sure it's just Hysteria.
80's metal
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Yes, i read the same thing, that they layered each string at a time, I believe that was a mutt lang trade mark?
I believe Mutt produced a couple of songs on High 'n Dry, Pyromania and Hysteria.
He may have done all of High 'n Dry.
Some songs are just obvious Mutt. For instance the song Do You Believe In Love by Huey Lewis is a Mutt produced song. Only song on Picture This that Mutt produced and it's quite obvious when you listen to the album.
He may have done all of High 'n Dry.
Some songs are just obvious Mutt. For instance the song Do You Believe In Love by Huey Lewis is a Mutt produced song. Only song on Picture This that Mutt produced and it's quite obvious when you listen to the album.
Like the other posters said, anything after High 'n Dry is highly produced. Nothing a module can do to help you there.
For High 'n Dry kind of tones maybe you can try a Plexi with a boost pedal in front that has a tone knob (like a SD-1). Keep the gain down (around 10:00) on the module and adjust the tone knob on the pedal until you hear appropriate amount of treble. Their tones had that vintage Marshall brightness that you will not get out of a stock module alone.
You may also want to get that Plexi modified by Pete (Ok Strat). The clarity and improved sound quality provided by his mods helps alot when trying to cover recorded tones.
For High 'n Dry kind of tones maybe you can try a Plexi with a boost pedal in front that has a tone knob (like a SD-1). Keep the gain down (around 10:00) on the module and adjust the tone knob on the pedal until you hear appropriate amount of treble. Their tones had that vintage Marshall brightness that you will not get out of a stock module alone.
You may also want to get that Plexi modified by Pete (Ok Strat). The clarity and improved sound quality provided by his mods helps alot when trying to cover recorded tones.
GtrGeorge!
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Im a big fan of Def Lep,
fwiw: Ive owned the Rockman stuff (even the very rare XP100 combo amp) and although they claim they used it all over Hysteria..I dont quite believe it. Band like Lillian Axe actually do use the Rockman stuff in he studio and live..and its a different tone. If you havent heard them, do google them..they are very very good.
main point: I think they did some of it with Rockman stuff, but I think alot was Marshalls very well recorded (thats where Mutt's expertise comes in). In fact, They use modded JMP-1 matrshall midi preamps live to do it live.
If they REALLY used Rockman stuff..why arent they using it live? Lillian Axe does and it does sound great. But again, I insist, it sounds diff from what we all know as Hysteria.
So my point: As Phil Collen points out..its a combination of things. Its thicker strings than most guys use (they use .10 or .11) Its SuperStrats with Over wrapped Humbuckers. Its a modded JMP-1 (alot like a jose modded sound if you ask me)...its also hitting the strings hard, using alot of compression, EQ, and overdubs.
I am being specific here..and I mean everything I say. I have personally seen their gear..and seen them live a bunch of times..I have also scoured the internet for the answers. I feel I have just listed,above, whats involved..and btw: its also what Collen has said.
Their tone sort of reminds me of a similar lesson we can learn from Boston, the Tom Scholz band..
Tom used Marshalls....(and only later develooped his Rockman gear)..but initally it was marshall SuperLead amps..and who else but Tom gets that sound????
Thats my point..its not just gear, its a thousand other things and the right gear.
I think we can all appreciatte how great Def Lep really is, once we get this. Even without Mutt onboard (like the last 4 CDs...) they are still Def Lep and sound great. See them live, too. They pull it off..and that aint easy.
-GtrGeorge
PS: if you can, see the TV special behind the making of Hysteria. It shows Phill, Joe etc going over the individual parts in Hysteria...next to the board..with the master tapes rollin..they dont give away anything..but you get a good understanding of the CD from that show. maybe google for it. Its very much worth seeing.
fwiw: Ive owned the Rockman stuff (even the very rare XP100 combo amp) and although they claim they used it all over Hysteria..I dont quite believe it. Band like Lillian Axe actually do use the Rockman stuff in he studio and live..and its a different tone. If you havent heard them, do google them..they are very very good.
main point: I think they did some of it with Rockman stuff, but I think alot was Marshalls very well recorded (thats where Mutt's expertise comes in). In fact, They use modded JMP-1 matrshall midi preamps live to do it live.
If they REALLY used Rockman stuff..why arent they using it live? Lillian Axe does and it does sound great. But again, I insist, it sounds diff from what we all know as Hysteria.
So my point: As Phil Collen points out..its a combination of things. Its thicker strings than most guys use (they use .10 or .11) Its SuperStrats with Over wrapped Humbuckers. Its a modded JMP-1 (alot like a jose modded sound if you ask me)...its also hitting the strings hard, using alot of compression, EQ, and overdubs.
I am being specific here..and I mean everything I say. I have personally seen their gear..and seen them live a bunch of times..I have also scoured the internet for the answers. I feel I have just listed,above, whats involved..and btw: its also what Collen has said.
Their tone sort of reminds me of a similar lesson we can learn from Boston, the Tom Scholz band..
Tom used Marshalls....(and only later develooped his Rockman gear)..but initally it was marshall SuperLead amps..and who else but Tom gets that sound????
Thats my point..its not just gear, its a thousand other things and the right gear.
I think we can all appreciatte how great Def Lep really is, once we get this. Even without Mutt onboard (like the last 4 CDs...) they are still Def Lep and sound great. See them live, too. They pull it off..and that aint easy.
-GtrGeorge
PS: if you can, see the TV special behind the making of Hysteria. It shows Phill, Joe etc going over the individual parts in Hysteria...next to the board..with the master tapes rollin..they dont give away anything..but you get a good understanding of the CD from that show. maybe google for it. Its very much worth seeing.
GtrGeorge!
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oops double post
guitarcomet
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I downloaded a clip of Phil Cohen showing how to play a lead part.
There were 2 Marshall stacks behind him.
It also sounded like there were a bunch of effects (signal processing)being used. :!:
The main sound was Marshall.
I've heard he uses Rivera amps, too.
There were 2 Marshall stacks behind him.
It also sounded like there were a bunch of effects (signal processing)being used. :!:
The main sound was Marshall.
I've heard he uses Rivera amps, too.
guitarcomet
Well-known member
GtrGeorge! said:
I played in a band with a guy that had a XP100 combo.
It never could cut through like my Simul-Class combo. (too trebly)
He ran it through a 4x12 and a power amp...but my 1x12 M/B combo kicked it's ***!
I think Phil now has a M4 in his rig.
The key to the Rockman stuff and DL is EQ the crap out of everything. You can make a Rockman sound like almost anything you want if you EQ it properly. That means an EQ in the loop pre-distortion and one after the Sustainor.
The key to the Rockman stuff and DL is EQ the crap out of everything. You can make a Rockman sound like almost anything you want if you EQ it properly. That means an EQ in the loop pre-distortion and one after the Sustainor.
GtrGeorge!
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ned: I agree very much with you..those circuits are underrated. Eddie Van Halen and Billy Gibbons STILL use Rockman gear..and they can (and do ) own anything they want.
guitarcomet: fwiw: Ive NEVER seen P Collen play anything but Marshalls..although he has said different things now and then(even an early randall endorser) . I have read and researched his gear for years..and he seems to talk about a variety of gear..but he ACTUALLY sticks to the same tools time and time again. I guess if you sold 20million CDs..you might think you found a good tone,too.
Regarding DeF Lep live. You didnt say how many times you've seen them. I doubt its more than I have...and here's the deal: if you see anybody there good nights and bad nights. People forget but,for example, Hendrix was booed off the stage in 1970 in Germany. It happens. But I think to be fair, Def Lep continues to sell well out live..and why? Because for many people they do a great job. And they have a much more difficult job than people appreciatte..the CDs they record often have many,many tracks .and many vocals. I cant do what they do and I do a have a VERY smart,sophisticated guitar rig. And I know how to use it very well.
I think they cut it as good as it can be done...and in my experience, people think they do a great job. I know people that have seen them EVERY single chance they get (like 25 times!!!) ..and these people have ears..part of what attracted them to DefLep..and THEY are still seeing DefLep live and loving the gigs.
Reconsider your evaluation GuitarComet...maybe you've lost any interest in what they do.
I know this: probably anybody at this forum would be happy to play to as many people as they play to every year.
guitarcomet: fwiw: Ive NEVER seen P Collen play anything but Marshalls..although he has said different things now and then(even an early randall endorser) . I have read and researched his gear for years..and he seems to talk about a variety of gear..but he ACTUALLY sticks to the same tools time and time again. I guess if you sold 20million CDs..you might think you found a good tone,too.
Regarding DeF Lep live. You didnt say how many times you've seen them. I doubt its more than I have...and here's the deal: if you see anybody there good nights and bad nights. People forget but,for example, Hendrix was booed off the stage in 1970 in Germany. It happens. But I think to be fair, Def Lep continues to sell well out live..and why? Because for many people they do a great job. And they have a much more difficult job than people appreciatte..the CDs they record often have many,many tracks .and many vocals. I cant do what they do and I do a have a VERY smart,sophisticated guitar rig. And I know how to use it very well.
I think they cut it as good as it can be done...and in my experience, people think they do a great job. I know people that have seen them EVERY single chance they get (like 25 times!!!) ..and these people have ears..part of what attracted them to DefLep..and THEY are still seeing DefLep live and loving the gigs.
Reconsider your evaluation GuitarComet...maybe you've lost any interest in what they do.
I know this: probably anybody at this forum would be happy to play to as many people as they play to every year.
guitarcomet
Well-known member
GtrGeorge! said:
No, I still love their stuff. But the vocals (I'm talking only about Joe) are really poor now.
He use to sound pretty good, but now he's hard to listen to. (harsh) As the song by Maryanne Faithful says, "The way you talk makes me wanna clear my throat"
He needs to take a long break (maybe retire) because he's getting wornout.
Sure everyone has bad nights, but Joe has very few good ones anymore.
Joe himself will tell you he's not that good.
The fact that some people still go see them live is beyond me.
The music is good, but Joe needs a replacement.
But then, that wouldn't be Def Leppard, now would it?
Vocals are very important. (to me)
BTW, I bought my first DL record in 1980 (On Through The Night).
I've been a fan ever since.
GtrGeorge!
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well then...excuse my hastiness. I apologize for being forceful with my opinion...its just that many criticize and dont really know to much about the subject.
Well Maybe Joe needs to take a long breather. I agree vocals are essential. I am playing with a good singer now, and its one of the reasons I joined this band. Bad singer=bad band, to an audience..no matter how good the other people are, imho.
And re: xp100....I used to run that into 4x12..and yeah..it didnt have that big tube sound....but It was a sound that could do well in lots of bands. It just wasnt MY sound. I am addicted to tubes, hence my RM4 and Rt 2/50 rig.
I think the Rockman stuff didnt succeed as much it cold have basically due to the consumer not being receptive. Guitar players are funny..they ***** about needing flexibilty and portabilty and then when give em what they want..they ***** that it has more than 2 knobs!!!
I am so glad I dont participate with most of those sorts.
I am happy to use my Rig..and back to Phil and Def Lep...I wish them the best, I stopped seeing them about 3 years ago...I knew the setlist really well..and while it was fun...once you memorize the setlist, the thrill is gone. Sure I exageratte a little bit on that, but you know what I mean. I give alot..and I expect alot
This is a bizness where you gotta be fleet to survive..no sittin on your hands.
Well Maybe Joe needs to take a long breather. I agree vocals are essential. I am playing with a good singer now, and its one of the reasons I joined this band. Bad singer=bad band, to an audience..no matter how good the other people are, imho.
And re: xp100....I used to run that into 4x12..and yeah..it didnt have that big tube sound....but It was a sound that could do well in lots of bands. It just wasnt MY sound. I am addicted to tubes, hence my RM4 and Rt 2/50 rig.
I think the Rockman stuff didnt succeed as much it cold have basically due to the consumer not being receptive. Guitar players are funny..they ***** about needing flexibilty and portabilty and then when give em what they want..they ***** that it has more than 2 knobs!!!
I am so glad I dont participate with most of those sorts.
I am happy to use my Rig..and back to Phil and Def Lep...I wish them the best, I stopped seeing them about 3 years ago...I knew the setlist really well..and while it was fun...once you memorize the setlist, the thrill is gone. Sure I exageratte a little bit on that, but you know what I mean. I give alot..and I expect alot
This is a bizness where you gotta be fleet to survive..no sittin on your hands.
