MTS Module Comparison: SLO-100, Judge, "Brownstone&quot

[Kapo_Polenton]

Ok, as promised, here is a quick little diddy I put together of three modules. All had the gain about 75%. Mic is an SM57, just off the cone but could have stood to be moved a tad farther out as there is some fizzies where it is but I think combined with another mic further out, could create a really good cutting tone in a mix. Settings for the most part are as follows:

SLO-100: B:12, M:12,T:3, Overdrive engaged, fluid engaged. ( i think, can't remember if fluid was on now)

Judge w/ "juror" mod (3 parts swapped): B:1, M:12, T: 3

"Brownstone": B:12, M:12, T:1

Guitar: Alder w/ Koa top, maple fretboard. Bright bright bright and spanky. Only really dig it for some 80's tones. Pickup is a Dimarzio Air Zone which is more or less the equivalent to a custom custom SH11 EQ wise.

Speaker is a RI well broken in greenback. You get some crunch and fizzies with greenbacks but they just have a certain 80's mojo.

Chops... well, those can always improve lol. There is some random noodling at the end to give you a taste of how these can sound.

Breakdown is as follows:

SLO-Judge-Brownstone for rythms, then it repeats 1-2-3 for noodling.

Enjoy and listen at your own risk.. I am a treble junky so beware!!!! :twisted:

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=1191247

"MTS Module comparison 80" is the one you want. Audio starts at around 9 second mark.

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[audiomidijace]

They all sounded good. I think your playing was best with the Judge, but I liked the tone of the Brownstone best. Thanks for the demo. What is the "Brownstone" anyway? I've not heard of this mod.

 

[Kapo_Polenton]

Thanks.. Yeah I think i just hit the riffs better with the Judge and the leads worked better. I agree though, Browstone wins for me. The brownstone is a modded brahma with an additional gain stage and tweak to R7. I tried a bunch of values and found one that worked best. I documented the changes in this section a few months back I believe. Sacred Groove (Scott) is to thank for help on that one. He gave me the ideas I just played with a few values here or there. At the end of the day, I think it is like the Scary and Brahma got together and had a child out of wedlock + a bit of a mid boost.

 

[Mattfig]

Nice! The clips sounded solid man...Very cool...They all sound very similar to one another to my ear...I think there is a change in confidence perhaps in mods two and three...Your playing just seems more staccato and clean...They all would serve a guitar track nicely in the studio though...

While you know I'm a treble-junkie as well, I think your mic placement and tone were very good- particularly for a demo such as this...

Thanks for doing this! Always nice to hear each others' takes on this stuff...

 

[Kapo_Polenton]

If i can be honest about my assessment, I would say that the SLO-100 is a little more out of control. It definitely is thicker though. So I think i fight it a tad more. The judge and Brownstone are slightly diff in that there is more cut with the brownstone to my ears. I hear a diff between the 3 but as you said, it isn't as drastic as one might think.... which makes me think, all this time chasing these tones when they are all very similar and can be dialed in that way. I think they become worth it when you dial them in for extremes such as scooped for metal or bright for VH etc... That said, I can scoop the mids on the browstone and get some killer Annihilator riffage.

 

[LunatiBSW]

nice chops! makes me wanna wear leather pants :shock:

 

[ncsouthpaw]

I like them all but I LOVE that "Brownstone" sound. I'd be interested in more info on that if you're willing to share.

 

[Kapo_Polenton]

Here ya go.. http://mtsforum.grailtone.com/viewtopic.php?t=14090&highlight=

I've since changed C13 to a 22uf cap.. other than that I added a 1M to R7 to my ears to control the gain. There might be one other component change I've made since but that is the jist of it. Very much a brahma and Scary combined.

 

[Mike P]

If i can be honest about my assessment, I would say that the SLO-100 is a little more out of control. It definitely is thicker though. So I think i fight it a tad more. The judge and Brownstone are slightly diff in that there is more cut with the brownstone to my ears. I hear a diff between the 3 but as you said, it isn't as drastic as one might think.... which makes me think, all this time chasing these tones when they are all very similar and can be dialed in that way. I think they become worth it when you dial them in for extremes such as scooped for metal or bright for VH etc... That said, I can scoop the mids on the browstone and get some killer Annihilator riffage.

I liked the last module best but with that said, they were all extremely similar and in a full mix, I think the difference would be negligible.

Great work, Dude!

 

[Kapo_Polenton]

I liked the last module best but with that said, they were all extremely similar and in a full mix, I think the difference would be negligible.

Another vote for the Brownstone! You are right though, in a mix, any of these modules or "amps" would get the job done. There are subtle differences which only the player would hear or prefer. The judge is good to me now but i always end up moving away from it. I either go to the stock brahma + OD or my Brownstone module. I think it might be time for me to round out my tone arsenal with some XTC ish or Rectoish. The Grail for example. I think if anything though, shows the MTS stuff can hang with real Marshall flavoured amps or Marshalls themselves.

 

[VitaminG]

If i can be honest about my assessment, I would say that the SLO-100 is a little more out of control. It definitely is thicker though. So I think i fight it a tad more. The judge and Brownstone are slightly diff in that there is more cut with the brownstone to my ears. I hear a diff between the 3 but as you said, it isn't as drastic as one might think.... which makes me think, all this time chasing these tones when they are all very similar and can be dialed in that way. I think they become worth it when you dial them in for extremes such as scooped for metal or bright for VH etc... That said, I can scoop the mids on the browstone and get some killer Annihilator riffage.

I liked the last module best but with that said, they were all extremely similar and in a full mix, I think the difference would be negligible.

Great work, Dude!

so close enough (in a full mix) that you could substitute an AxeFX for them?

 

[Kapo_Polenton]

With the RIGHT power amp why not! 8)

 

[Mike P]

Another vote for the Brownstone! You are right though, in a mix, any of these modules or "amps" would get the job done. There are subtle differences which only the player would hear or prefer. The judge is good to me now but i always end up moving away from it. I either go to the stock brahma + OD or my Brownstone module. I think it might be time for me to round out my tone arsenal with some XTC ish or Rectoish. The Grail for example. I think if anything though, shows the MTS stuff can hang with real Marshall flavoured amps or Marshalls themselves.

The Brownstone is fine but IMO, you dialed in the SLO with way too much top end.

Now, while the tone is there, the sonic footprint is very small. You'd need to use "smaller" sounding drums and a bass without too much sub 80hz or the guitars would get lost.

I know that you're a huge fan of 80's production but it was paper thin compared to today's modern production. Are you still planning to move forward with better converters, DAW, preamps and mics?

FTR, I'm setting up a studio for my Dad and recommended he purchase the Golden Age 73 MkII and the 2254 compressor, along with a Steinberg interface to go with Superior Drummer and Cubase 6.0. I'll be engineering "remotely", as he's in the Midwest but I'll let you know how the Gap fares with guitars and vocals. The previous version was unbelievable for the price and the MkII is *supposedly* even better.

 

[Kapo_Polenton]

I think you are right about the SLO. I tend to set everything up the way I want to hear it but it may not be the best fit for the song. Another thing to consider is that while I am blowing my load over 80's tones and recordings, it isn't the 80's anymore and if I want to get into recording as a hobby, I have to realize that people will want a thicker and sometimes more modern sound. I have to be able to work with all of these types of tones.

I am actually thinking of moving forward with getting some better equipment. I think I might pickup a the golden age MarkII in the new year and go from there. SM57's are fine for now but i'd like to check out a 906, a fathead II, and the mic you also recommended. Unfortunately funds are limited so all of this will have to be done as money becomes available or I sell stuff. I'm struggling with selling my 82 JCM800 now. The modules really do "it" better than that amp and it is a vertical input model that people chase after. I am sure I could get 900-1000$ to put towards better gear. I'd be very interested in hearing how your dad's setup will turn out and what sort of budget he is starting with.

 

[Mike P]

I think you are right about the SLO. I tend to set everything up the way I want to hear it but it may not be the best fit for the song. Another thing to consider is that while I am blowing my load over 80's tones and recordings, it isn't the 80's anymore and if I want to get into recording as a hobby, I have to realize that people will want a thicker and sometimes more modern sound. I have to be able to work with all of these types of tones.

I am actually thinking of moving forward with getting some better equipment. I think I might pickup a the golden age MarkII in the new year and go from there. SM57's are fine for now but i'd like to check out a 906, a fathead II, and the mic you also recommended. Unfortunately funds are limited so all of this will have to be done as money becomes available or I sell stuff. I'm struggling with selling my 82 JCM800 now. The modules really do "it" better than that amp and it is a vertical input model that people chase after. I am sure I could get 900-1000$ to put towards better gear. I'd be very interested in hearing how your dad's setup will turn out and what sort of budget he is starting with.

I'd recommend the GAP 73 MkII and an e906 for starters. Also, I'd look into a better DAW like Cubase and a Controller/Interface like the UR28M. PM when you're ready for the DAW and interface and I'll get you hooked up to a slammin' deal.

 

[Kapo_Polenton]

I was running Cubase for while... way to much going on for me. Right now I really dig the REAPER for the layout, functions, and overall feel. I suspect DAW wise you can switch at any time though so I might start with the preamp and mic. I'd be using the presonus as the converter though, will that affect the sound somewhat??The UR28 looks interesting but again, it has built in preamps, you'd be suggesting using the golden age regardless correct?

 

[Mike P]

I was running Cubase for while... way to much going on for me. Right now I really dig the REAPER for the layout, functions, and overall feel. I suspect DAW wise you can switch at any time though so I might start with the preamp and mic. I'd be using the presonus as the converter though, will that affect the sound somewhat??The UR28 looks interesting but again, it has built in preamps, you'd be suggesting using the golden age regardless correct?

If you like Reaper, stick with it. It doesn't have the feature set of the full version of Cubase but if it's working for you, I wouldn't recommend changing at this point.

I recommended the UR28 because not only are the converters really, really good at that price point but so that you'll also have functionality. Transport functions, plugins, etc. can all be controlled by the UR28 without using the mouse or keyboard.

With an outboard preamp and the UR28, you'd choose inputs that don't feature their onboard preamp. But if you're sticking with Reaper, there are tons of options for I/O, albeit with less functionality.

 

[Kapo_Polenton]

Unrelated question, do you run outboard effects? I was watching a Wagener studio tour and he mentioned using reverb and delay units as opposed to plugins as he still prefers them. At the cost of some of the older delays and reverbs that you can score in the 100-200$ range, what is your opinion of using your DAW to send a track and then record the return back in if you like the effect? Unnecessary for the home hobbiest? I think it is also because I have been using a lot of free plugins..

 

[Mike P]

Unrelated question, do you run outboard effects? I was watching a Wagener studio tour and he mentioned using reverb and delay units as opposed to plugins as he still prefers them. At the cost of some of the older delays and reverbs that you can score in the 100-200$ range, what is your opinion of using your DAW to send a track and then record the return back in if you like the effect? Unnecessary for the home hobbiest? I think it is also because I have been using a lot of free plugins..

In Cubase and Nuendo, it's possible to create "External Effects" which are then used as VST Plugins. You'd need an interface with multiple I/O to "virtually patch" the outboard effects (2 ins, 2 outs for a stereo unit). From there, you can patch in EQ's, reverbs, compressors - whatever you'd like.

I track with outboard gear but use many 3rd party plugins including Waves SSL, Waves Neve, Lexicon Native Reverbs, etc while mixing. I send 16 channels to a Neve Summing Mixer with a Vintech 609ca (which is a 33609 clone with 2254 transformers) on the Two Buss of the Neve, then back into Nuendo for final mixes.

 

[Hamner1]

Agreed. To be honest I thought all of them had a bit more high end then I like, but in a mix it might sit perfectly. I liked the Juror mod the best in that the highs were not quite as piercing.

I like the 80's tone so all of the mods sounded pretty good. Just dial back the highs. :lol: