Problems cutting through?

[ubermetaldood]

Does anyone else have problems cutting through in a studio or live mix? My RM100 (EL34's loaded) sounds fairly dark. I have a Plexi and SL+ module installed but even with the presence all the way up it still doesn't get that authentic Marshall bite.

If I turn the treble all the way up, it seems to have only a subtle effect in each module. The bass and middle controls seem much more effective. I'm thinking maybe this amp isn't for me. I've come to love the presence and bite of Marshall amps. I was hoping to get a flexible variety from the RM100 but am not sure it's inherently bright enough to fit the bill.

 

[eedude]

yes, and yes. i'm having the exact same problem in both cases. I love the tone of some modules solo.. but when I take this thing to practice it get's lost. There is a lack of treble IMO, I have my modules at 10. I think it has to do with how the EQ is on the RM100 power amp. I'm experimenting with my rack peavey classic 60, lots brighter, have not taken this to practice yet. I'm almost ready to jump and get a dual recto..... :shock: yeah.....

 

[ned]

Mids are what will help you cut through not treble.

 

[Mattfig]

All I can say is that a MIDI programmable EQ is the greatest thing to add to an MTS setup....I have a Rocktron Pro Q that was inexpensive (I think about 140) and gives me a chance to give each module its own special EQ setting and I can throw the mids around, add deep lows or crisp highs...Best addition ever, especially for a live setup...Adds completely new dimensions to each module...

Then you can program your footswitch (if you run a MIDI setup) to have multiple settings for each module...It's simply awesome...Cheapest and best solution to a common problem...

 

[ubermetaldood]

Yeah I just got an M9 and hooked it up to the effects loop. So far, trying to boost the upper midrange only seems to beef up the natural low midrange of the amp. It seems like it tries to add it but it's a transparent sound, kind of like midrange EQ is being added subtly behind the signal.

What I have discovered so far is that it can cut through a mix but it can't turn my guitar tone knob down to much or it sounds very dull. I like a bright amp that I can round off with the guitar volume. It has a very present midrange but seems concentrated more in the low mids.

With Dimarzio pickups it only seems to intensify the lower mids and become slightly nasal; however, I kind of like that honky sound most of the time.

Scooping the mids on my RM100 works like a charm though! Randalls have one of the best scooped sounds I've ever heard.

 

[crankyrayhanky]

a few thoughts:
Presence all the way? That has to sound like ****. If you're maxing that and the treble, I would ask if your tubes are in need of replacement? Or perhaps you killed off the entire hi eq in your ears through years of exposure to loudness?

I'm the first guy to say stock modules need upgrades, but you should be able to get a useful tone to use at band practice with your setup.

Matt's eq suggestion is a good one- I may have to look into that.....but if you have these major issues now, that eq should be avoided. External EQ should enhance, not surgically alter the entire tone. Fix your issues first.

 

[HughJasol]

Matt's eq suggestion is a good one- I may have to look into that.....

Ray - you're welcome to borrow my Rane MPE-14 MIDI EQ and try it out if you like. I haven't integrated it into my setup as of yet, so it's really just sitting there doing nothing at the moment.

PM me if you're interested . . .

 

[Julia]

Try cutting the bass down, and running the treble around noon. Turn the mids up to about 3:00 or higher. Please turn your presence down. Also turn down the density. You shouldn't be running either past noon.

Remember the tone that sounds good to you in your studio isn't necessarily the one that will sound good in a mix.

Most of us practice at far lower volumes than we would in a band situation. So we have our mids set a lot lower and typically the bass and treble a little higher. This will not work in a band situation.

If this doesn't work you might want to invest in a rackmount EQ unit.

 

[ubermetaldood]

a few thoughts:
Presence all the way? That has to sound like ****. If you're maxing that and the treble, I would ask if your tubes are in need of replacement? Or perhaps you killed off the entire hi eq in your ears through years of exposure to loudness?

I'm the first guy to say stock modules need upgrades, but you should be able to get a useful tone to use at band practice with your setup.

Matt's eq suggestion is a good one- I may have to look into that.....but if you have these major issues now, that eq should be avoided. External EQ should enhance, not surgically alter the entire tone. Fix your issues first.

No way dude. I don't run my treble all the way. I have to keep my presence at at least 3:00 to get a 1/2 way decent bite in my tone. I don't have any issues. I'm guessing you were either in a hurry or reading my post on your cell phone so you didn't get a chance to read it carefully.

 

[ubermetaldood]

Try cutting the bass down, and running the treble around noon. Turn the mids up to about 3:00 or higher. Please turn your presence down. Also turn down the density. You shouldn't be running either past noon.

Remember the tone that sounds good to you in your studio isn't necessarily the one that will sound good in a mix.

Most of us practice at far lower volumes than we would in a band situation. So we have our mids set a lot lower and typically the bass and treble a little higher. This will not work in a band situation.

If this doesn't work you might want to invest in a rackmount EQ unit.

I don't run my bass past 11:00 most of the time. I typically keep my mids around 12:30 and treble about 12:00. On my RM100 I keep the presence around 3:00 to get more bite.

My sound is typically midrange oriented with a focus in the upper mids because I'm mostly a lead player. I don't like bassy sound or scooped mids for the most part. My RM100 still doesn't have enough emphasis in the upper mids to have an authentic Marshall sound. It doesn't have the same kind of presence.

I can cut through a mix but it doesn't stand out like a Marshall. In a live mix, it sounds rather mellow. When I record it's not so much a problem because I can mix it in the software.

It's not that I expect the RM100 to be raspy like a Marshall, but the upper mid presence just isn't there. By the way, I've tried some new JJ 12AX7 and Groove Tube gold preamp tubes... not much difference. I'm wondering if KT77's might be a good option because my experience is that KT77's are typically brighter than EL34's.

In any case, I've got my brand new loaded RM100 up on Ebay. I'm going to sell it.

It's not that it's not a great amp because it really is amazing, but I prefer a bright amp with lots of upper mids. I don't want to spend any more money making modifications to stuff.

 

[HughJasol]

If I turn the treble all the way up, it seems to have only a subtle effect in each module.

I think what crankyrayhanky was saying is that the fact that there is little effect when you do crank the TREBLE means that there's an issue somewhere . . .

 

[crankyrayhanky]

but even with the presence all the way up it still doesn't get that authentic Marshall bite.

If I turn the treble all the way up, it seems to have only a subtle effect in each module.

This^
I often do read on my phone, but not today
the mts amps should not be this dark/muddy

 

[crankyrayhanky]

Matt's eq suggestion is a good one- I may have to look into that.....

Ray - you're welcome to borrow my Rane MPE-14 MIDI EQ and try it out if you like. I haven't integrated it into my setup as of yet, so it's really just sitting there doing nothing at the moment.

PM me if you're interested . . .

Dude, that's an awesome offer....maybe we can meet up sometime in Tempe? I have some drummer auditions lined up at a rehearsal place there. It would also give us a chance to try each other's modules

 

[Shinozoku]

See, what will help you cut through is a 5751 in the PI of your amp and some Tung Sol preamp tubes...

 

[HughJasol]

Matt's eq suggestion is a good one- I may have to look into that.....

Ray - you're welcome to borrow my Rane MPE-14 MIDI EQ and try it out if you like. I haven't integrated it into my setup as of yet, so it's really just sitting there doing nothing at the moment.

PM me if you're interested . . .

Dude, that's an awesome offer....maybe we can meet up sometime in Tempe? I have some drummer auditions lined up at a rehearsal place there. It would also give us a chance to try each other's modules

Hey that sounds good! . . . I'll even audition for you (I play drums too).

I just checked - I still have your number in my phone . . . when are you doing your auditions? I've already got two lined up for tomorrow - I think this weekend's probably out for me . . .

 

[Nightdare]

I've tried some new JJ 12AX7

Those will certainly not help brighten up a dark sound



and in all this:

What kind of speakers are used (biggest % of the tone you're producing)

 

[Mattfig]

I've tried some new JJ 12AX7

Those will certainly not help brighten up a dark sound



and in all this:

What kind of speakers are used (biggest % of the tone you're producing)

Excellent question that the rest of us neglected to ask...

 

[m0jo]

I've tried some new JJ 12AX7

Those will certainly not help brighten up a dark sound



and in all this:

What kind of speakers are used (biggest % of the tone you're producing)

Excellent question that the rest of us neglected to ask...

I was about to!
Speakers have the biggest effect on sound, but are also the most missed element when improving a rig..

I found that the Randall cabs are pretty scooped in sound compared to some other V30 cabs.
If you want to be more present in the mix, you have to look at thick mids, GH30's or Eminence Governers / Private Jacks could be an option..
But that kind of depends on what cab and speakers you have at the moment..

 

[Daryl]

Does anyone else have problems cutting through in a studio or live mix? My RM100 (EL34's loaded) sounds fairly dark. I have a Plexi and SL+ module installed but even with the presence all the way up it still doesn't get that authentic Marshall bite.

If I turn the treble all the way up, it seems to have only a subtle effect in each module. The bass and middle controls seem much more effective. I'm thinking maybe this amp isn't for me. I've come to love the presence and bite of Marshall amps. I was hoping to get a flexible variety from the RM100 but am not sure it's inherently bright enough to fit the bill.

That's funny. With my RM100 I was always able to get more bite than with a Marshall. It sounds like something is not working properly. I run the RM100 with the modules full volume or close to that and bring up the master to taste. I set the EQ on the rythm and lead channels pretty flat, but with the mids between 2 and 4 o'clock. Depending on the size of the room. I do think the RM100 is a bassier sort of amp, but I can get some pretty intense highs and mids from it. Putting some Tung Sol 12AX7 preamp tubes in the V1 slot of the modules may help get you a brighter sound. And don't forget about your speakers. What are you using? Not all amps are going to respond the same way to the same cabs and speakers. I don't know why, but I have seen it plenty of times. A real paradigm shifter for me was when I learned about how much affect a boost/OD can have on pushing the front end. Something like a tubescreamer or just a clean boost pedal can really tighten up the sound and fill out all the frequencies in a nice way. It works with even getting good clean sounds. It sounds like you are pretty frustrated about your amp right now. I would take a break. Then come back and go through your amp piece by piece and experiment with it a little bit more.