Rig help with Pod HD500, RM4 and poweramp

[Skyze]

Just got my RM4 yesterday and trying to set it up, and the traditional 4 cable method with the Pod didnt seem to work for me.. so hoping someone with more experience can walk me step by step to connect it right.

I only have one module right now, a blackface.. and while it sounds good for cleans, it sounds pretty bad when putting effects on it so far. So kinda not thrilled with how RM4's take pedals so far, guess thats not its strong point..

So what i'd like to do if possible, is hook it up so the RM4 channel can be switched so its just the Pod at times, and then when I want a clean, I can turn on the RM4. But then I run into the issue of the RM4 not having its clean effects (reverb, delay, chorus) in the loop.. hmm

So if someone could walk me thru a way to hook this up, using the Pod (has FX loop send/return, output and input), the RM4 (input, series and parralell loops, and pre/post outs) and my poweramp (one input)

 

[Julia]

RM4? I'm not sure. Does the RM4 have an FX loop?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RmIbByDizyM

Hope this helps. Just make sure you have the level on the POD set to accommodate the amp and vice versa.

I guess you'd need to make sure you have an FX Loop designated in your POD Patch. Use the FX Loop in your patch as a switchable slot to put the RM4 in the circuit and out.

I'd essentially set up four patches with FX Loops in them. Use the ones that you're going to use the RM4 with had no amplifier set in the POD. Use the ones you're going to bypass the POD's FX Loop have an amp model.

Also if you're going out a guitar cab make sure you have NO CABINET selected on the POD.

This is the way I THINK it might be done. I don't have a RM4.

 

[Skyze]

doesnt work that way, because the RM4 doesnt have a bypass in its circuit. The only way I can imagine setting it up is if my poweramp had two inputs on the same channel so that I would have to plug my Pod into it along with the RM4.. which it doesnt.

Right now, everything in the pod runs thru the RM4. Even though the RM4 is in the middle, and I can put delays/etc after the RM4.. theres no way to bypass the RM4 itself, its always in the tone. And that essentially means that any Pod amp I wanna use, has to run thru the Blackface RM4.

That is probably ideal when I have 4 modules for the RM4, assuming they are good enough (which so far, im not sure im digging it) but its pretty lame the RM4 doesnt come with a bypass configuration, especially when you have empty module slots. Wouldnt that just make obvious sense?

 

[Graham Pearson]

I'm trying to understand exactly what you are trying to achieve.

If you had an A/B switch in front of your RM4 and HD500, with the "A" going through your RM4 and then through your HD500 and the "B" going only through your HD500, would this be the config you're after?

 

[Hamner1]

1st: the MTS stuff is not as plug and play as maybe some amps. I still find **** to tinker with (tubes, eq, gain, level). I had the Clean module and it was ok, but got much better when playing around with different tubes. The RM4 itself is likely not the issue to it's aversion to pedals. I've run boosts & overdrive pedals through the front without issue. My guess is you have 1 module that replicates that tone & you are looking for some others as well. Not really going to happen. Trust me if you get a MArshall amp & plug the HD500 into it and try to get a Fender tone, it aint going to happen.

Best bet short term is to find a way to A/B between having the RM4 and the POD but still having the effects for the RM4.

Better solution is more modules.

Julia - the RM4 has 2 effects loops (series and Parallel)

 

[Skyze]

I'm trying to understand exactly what you are trying to achieve.

If you had an A/B switch in front of your RM4 and HD500, with the "A" going through your RM4 and then through your HD500 and the "B" going only through your HD500, would this be the config you're after?

essentially but still having effects in the loop of the RM4.

I can get a kinda workaround with the HD500 turning off the effects loop (which essentially turns off the RM4) but it still feels like its bleeding thru, like its not a real bypass.. All my HD500 patches that normally sounded good, sound like garbage now with the RM4 in the effects loop, even when the FX loop is "off".. hmm

I dunno, the RM4 still sounds "disconnected" as opposed to a good amp anyways, like most low-cost rackmount preamps do, so im not sure. I wish someone made an amp that had versatility in the first place, you'd think someone would of done it by now with 3-4 channels covering the basics. Closest thing seems to be maybe the H&K Triamp at $3500.. but thats hard to tell without trying one if even that will be versatile enough

 

[Graham Pearson]

I use a DigiTech GSP-2101 with my RM4. The 2101 has an up-front analog section that includes tube distortion, compression, and analog EQ. This is followed by a digital effects section that has everything you could ever wish for and is completely user-configurable.

After I got into the Randall MTS stuff, I found it was far superior and much more versatile than the 2101's distortion. I now patch the 2101 into the RM4's parallel effects loop, completely bypassing the 2101's analog section. I drive my 2101 from a MIDI pedal board and the 2101's MIDI Out selects the corresponding RM4's MTS module.

You could probably achieve this setup with your HD500. Once you discover the tonal versatility of the MTS modules and you couple each with an appropriate set of effects, you'll never look back.

 

[audiomidijace]

It's pretty lame that a tube guitar preamp doesn't have a bypass function? :shock:
I hardly know how to respond to such an uneducated statement.
Just run your HD-500 in to a power amp and cab and call it a day.
Jeez. :roll:

 

[Hamner1]

If it is bleeding through when the loop is off, then that sounds like a defect in the POD not the RM4. I stand by my prior statement you need more modules. :lol:

If you want true MTS versatility, see MattFig's rack of delight. 8)

 

[Skyze]

It's pretty lame that a tube guitar preamp doesn't have a bypass function? :shock:
I hardly know how to respond to such an uneducated statement.
Just run your HD-500 in to a power amp and cab and call it a day.
Jeez. :roll:

So the RM4's effect loop having bleedthru when its suppose to work seamlessly in an effectsloop, is an invalid concern?? I use my Pod with many other preamps/amps, and it never had anything like this happen. Its the RM4.

It was WISHFUL THINKING that when you have only one module in there, that you could bypass it to use in conjunction with another preamp. I guess I shouldnt talk about my ideas/thoughts on improving this amp on this forum then, unless it comes from JF or Gigmods or Salvation's mouth, nothing is worth talking about??

Speaking of uneducated, you come in a thread of someone asking for help just to post a bullshit comment like that? I'll be sure to keep an eye out for whenever you make a thread needing help and return the favor. *******.

Most people here seem helpful, but people like this douche are making me realize why I dont venture out to these "specialized" forums too often with elitist kids who bash anyone who has any concerns about their little product. I guess if I have any sort of negative comments towards the modules, Im going to get idiots like this bashing me? Sad. Reminds me of the Axe-FX fanboys; if you dont like the Axe-FX, they will belittle you somehow and act as if the Axe-FX is the end-all to all guitar gear.

 

[VitaminG]

wow, you've leapt to a lot of conclusions there. Jace just questioned you wishing for a tube preamp that bypasses the preamp. That functionality isn't usually built into the amp - if it's not working, it's more likely to be a deficiency in the loop of the device you're putting the preamp into. As for whether this option would be an improvement to the amp is open to conjecture, given there are other ways of achieving what you're trying to do. Besides, how many people really need a preamp with the ability to bypass the preamp built into it?

From Jace's response you've conluded that he is a mindless fanboy who will hear nothing ill said against his beloved MTS gear or the modders? And then you start wth the abusive behaviour? I think you need to calm the hell down and put on your big boy pants. Accept that sometimes in life people are going to have a differing viewpoint, disagree with you, or question your reasoning. It's not the end of the world and if you don't like, you can always ignore it.

btw, I don't understand what you mean about the RM4s effects loop working seamlessly when it's in an effects loop. Why do you need the RM4s effects loop in another loop?

 

[Skyze]

Like I said, if people actually read my post.. I want to use the RM4 preamp for cleans (because thats the ONLY module I have).. and then use the Pod's amp setting on its own for higain amps, until I get more modules. Dont see how that is hard to understand, as it makes perfect sense. Works fine with my other preamps...

I didnt jump to conclusions with anything, I know you are friends with the guy and feel obligated to defend him, but read his post again with an unbiased mind, and tell me how that is not incredibly insulting. When someone is asking for help with anything, do you think its acceptable to say "Dont even bother using it, go back to your old product and call it a day"??? Thats considered help around here??

unreal.

 

[Daryl]

 

[Graham Pearson]

I've re-read your original post and it seems you've tried patching your HD500 into the RM4's series and parallel loops.

Have you tried patching the RM4 into the HD500's FX loop? If the HD500 has the capability of switching the FX loop in and out of the signal chain for different patches, this configuration should work. With some patches, you could rely solely on your HD500 for the signal chain, and with other patches, you could have the RM4 in the signal chain before the HD500's digital effects.

If you've already tried this config, why didn't it work?

 

[VitaminG]

Like I said, if people actually read my post.. I want to use the RM4 preamp for cleans (because thats the ONLY module I have).. and then use the Pod's amp setting on its own for higain amps, until I get more modules. Dont see how that is hard to understand, as it makes perfect sense. Works fine with my other preamps...

I didnt jump to conclusions with anything, I know you are friends with the guy and feel obligated to defend him, but read his post again with an unbiased mind, and tell me how that is not incredibly insulting. When someone is asking for help with anything, do you think its acceptable to say "Dont even bother using it, go back to your old product and call it a day"??? Thats considered help around here??

unreal.

I fully understand what you're trying to do. I understood that from your first post. Plenty of folks around here are using multi-preamp setups just fine. Your expectation that the RM4 should be able to bypass itself since your effects unit won't was a little surprising. I hadn't previously responded to this thread because my knowledge of the HD500 & RM4 are limited, and would only be speculating on possible solutions based on reading the manuals of each, or by googling for a response, which I'm sure you've already attempted.

I find your attitude to anyone who doesn't give you that answer you expect a little insulting, to tell you the truth.

As for jumping to conclusions, you've done it again. I'm not friends with Jace. Not that we're unfriendly, but I don't believe we've ever conversed on this forum. So there is no obligation to run to his aid because of any friendship between us.

Jace posted an unhelpful response. You exploded. I was merely responding to what I saw as an unnecessary overreaction from you. Maybe you should read your response to him with an open mind. See if, in your own mind, you can correlate what he actually said with what you inferred from his post.

 

[m0jo]

I'm just gonna ignore the bullshit and get to the point.

Skyze,
If you run it like this:
Guitar > Pod in,
Pod fx send > RM4 input, RM4 output > Pod return,
Pod output > poweramp

Then you basically run through the pod completely and could turn off the FX loop in the pod right?
That should allow you to make patches without the RM4 in, so you can use your Pod's amps.
I'm pretty sure the Pod's FX-loop can be switched on and off.. which is what you want to achieve.

You want your Pod to be the main device here, and the RM4 to be slaved.
So ignore the RM4 loops and use the Pod's loop to do that.

Please can we keep it civilised here people?
This is the only forum where this kind of bullshit normally doesn't exist.
Let's get back to being a helpful forum instead of a shoutbox.

 

[Hamner1]

Skyze,
If you run it like this:
Guitar > Pod in,
Pod fx send > RM4 input, RM4 output > Pod return,
Pod output > poweramp

Then you basically run through the pod completely and could turn off the FX loop in the pod right?
That should allow you to make patches without the RM4 in, so you can use your Pod's amps.
I'm pretty sure the Pod's FX-loop can be switched on and off.. which is what you want to achieve.

You want your Pod to be the main device here, and the RM4 to be slaved.
So ignore the RM4 loops and use the Pod's loop to do that.

Skyze this should work to achieve what you are trying to do short term. I think this was what Julia and the rest of us were trying to point out as well. If you are getting bleed through of the RM4 when the POD loop is switched out, then that is an issue with the POD. If the loop in the POD is programmable and assignable to certain positions then this should be perfect.
1. Cleans - Have the loop 1st in the effects chain (algorithm or what ever it is called) this should put the RM4 1st and then your digital effects next (the equivalent of a preamp then MFX unit).

2. Overdrive/Distortion tones - Don't have the loop switched on for these. This should be the equivalent of POD preamp into POD digital effect (no RM4 in the signal chain).

 

[m0jo]

Something I just thought of:
The RM4's output is line level, not guitar or stompbox level.

So be sure to set the FX-loop to "line"
(I see there's a switch on the back of the HD500)

Maybe that causes some bleedthrough ..

 

[audiomidijace]

I use my Pod with many other preamps/amps, and it never had anything like this happen.

I guess all of those other amps and preamps had a bypass switch!:lol:

I'm sorry I'm being an unhelpful ******* here. I couldn't help myself. It was like saying "I can't believe my new hammer doesn't support a phillips head screwdriver attachment! Maybe going with Craftsman was a mistake."

Please understand that my status as an ******* has nothing to do with my love for my MTS amps. I'm a lot of things, but I'm not a gear snob. I think the Line 6 HD-500 is probably the best product they've ever made and it sounds **** good! And actually, my advice was from the heart. If I was going to run an HD-500 I'd probably use a Mesa Boogie 50/50 power amp and a pair of cabs.

If I were going to use an HD-500 with an RM-100 I'd use 3 modules, bypass all of the amp modeling and just use the FX either in front or in the series loop, which ever sounded better. Then use the MIDI output to change the channel on the RM-100 per preset. It's a pretty good value considering the cost of a MIDI pedal and good processor.

Sorry for being an *******. What can I say? I was off my meds for a few days and you made a stupid statement. I claim temporary insanity.:roll:

 

[m0jo]

I use my Pod with many other preamps/amps, and it never had anything like this happen.

I guess all of those other amps and preamps had a bypass switch!:lol:

I'm sorry I'm being an unhelpful ******* here. I couldn't help myself. It was like saying "I can't believe my new hammer doesn't support a phillips head screwdriver attachment! Maybe going with Craftsman was a mistake."

Please understand that my status as an ******* has nothing to do with my love for my MTS amps. I'm a lot of things, but I'm not a gear snob. I think the Line 6 HD-500 is probably the best product they've ever made and it sounds **** good! And actually, my advice was from the heart. If I was going to run an HD-500 I'd probably use a Mesa Boogie 50/50 power amp and a pair of cabs.

If I were going to use an HD-500 with an RM-100 I'd use 3 modules, bypass all of the amp modeling and just use the FX either in front or in the series loop, which ever sounded better. Then use the MIDI output to change the channel on the RM-100 per preset. It's a pretty good value considering the cost of a MIDI pedal and good processor.

Sorry for being an *******. What can I say? I was off my meds for a few days and you made a stupid statement. I claim temporary insanity.:roll:

Hahaha and still not helpful :lol:

Let's hope you haven't scared him off now
I'm sure it should work just fine with the right setup.