Switching from ENGL570SE to RM4!?

[Zorglub]

Hi!
I'm from the french speaking part of Switzerland, so I apologize by advance for the mistakes! thanks, I hope you'll understand...

I'm new here, and I've got several questions.
I'm going to switch from my Engl 570SE preamp to the RM4, but I'm still hesiting. I'm not really happy with that Engl tone, I find it too sterile sounding, too clean, not organic at all. And I found that the Engl is too much for my needs, I don't need all these bells'n'whistles and switches and onboard noise-gate and ****. Prior I go into the rack stuff, I played thru an old 2203 and a Sovtek MIG-50 (stereo rig), but at that time, I needed too many pedals to achieve the tone I was after, and it was a real pain in the ass to carry both heads and cabs for the shows. So I decided to give the rack stuff a try, because being the only guitarist in my band, I want to keep a stereo rig to widen my sound. But I miss the immediacy I had with the heads, and I hope the RM4 to be much more organic sounding than the 570SE, if it makes sense? I really wanna find something between my two rigs. The MTS seems to be the way for me to go, what do you think? Do you think it would be an upgrade for my rig?

And I need some help from you to choose my mods, too...

* First I want for a very round and warm clean sound (my all-time fav in that league was the clean channel of my Krank Revolution).

* Then, I need a really thick crunch channel (think of The Darkness's "Black Shuck" tone). I'd like this channel's range covering from slight crunch to thick overdrive.

* For my main riffing channel, I'd like a very punchy, thick and tight sound. I hate piercing treble and muddy bass. All about thick as hell, throaty, thundering mids (think of Carcass's "Heartwork" / KSE / Trivium). But I don't need truckloads of gain, I run my Engl Lead Channel at 9:00 with passive pickups, and I'm not into the Death Metal Chainsaw thing...

* I'm looking for a very fluid, creamy lead channel. Eternal sustain, and again, no harshness.

I was thinking of:
1) Clean (or Blackface?)
2) Plexi (or Brahma?)
3) SL+ (or Mr Scary?)
4) XTC (or Ultra XL?)

My poweramp is the VHT 2/56/2 (6L6 tubes) and I wonder if all the mods will work fine with these tubes? Since most of the mods I'm after are definitely Marshall-voiced, I wonder if I should switch to EL34?
Oh, and it's important to me that all four mods should be voiced to complement each other (same voicing but different gain levels) rather than, say, a Plexi with a Recto.

Thanks by advance for your answers, sorry for the long post!

 

[hyenik]

if you thinking ?bout stock then my point of view
1) blackface
2) JTM, brahma, plexi
3) KH2, Grail
4) XTC

but you have chance to "one" step higher with modifications
try these samples - http://www.soundclick.com/SALVATIONMODS

 

[eyeball987]

If you stay with stock modules I would go with:

1) Super V or DLX. I don't have any experience with the other clean modules.
2) Brahma
3) Mr Scary (or post 2008 SL+)
4) Grail.

Yes, all Lynch modules but those are some of the best sounding stock modules. If you through in the modded units, you can almost tailor most of them to anything you want.

 

[Nightdare]

Oh, and it's important to me that all four mods should be voiced to complement each other (same voicing but different gain levels) rather than, say, a Plexi with a Recto.

When I think about it, the only simlar voicing would be JTM/Plexi/SL+/Mr Scary

Already thought about an egnater M4?

 

[Zorglub]

Wow, thanks for all the replies!
Yes, I know Egnater, too, but it's too expensive for me right now, difficult to find, and I think Egnater is more about mid-gain mods?

JTM/Plexi/SL+/Mr Scary

Is the JTM a clean module? I thought it was more crunch!?

About the Mr Scary, I've read that it is a truly great rythm module, but less singing for the leads than, say, XTC or Ultra XL. It's inspired by SLO100. But is Soldano kinda of Hotrodded Marshall, is it correct?
What about two SL+? One would be set for rythm, the other for leads?

Oh, and does anyone can answer this :

My poweramp is the VHT 2/56/2 (6L6 tubes) and I wonder if all the mods will work fine with these tubes? Since most of the mods I'm after are definitely Marshall-voiced, I wonder if I should switch to EL34?

Thanks again?

 

[tehuk]

All stock:

1)Blackface
2)Plexi/Brahma
3)SL+ with JCM800 tone stack
4)Ultra XL

Mods make a huge difference so I would suggest looking into them when you get some extra cash. If you have experience with a soldering iron you can do the basic warmth/clarity mods yourself.

My poweramp is the VHT 2/56/2 (6L6 tubes) and I wonder if all the mods will work fine with these tubes? Since most of the mods I'm after are definitely Marshall-voiced, I wonder if I should switch to EL34?

I'm not sure if the black beauty can use EL34s. EL34s give that upper mid bite that Marshalls are known for so switching to a power amp that can use them would help you achieve the tone your are looking for.

 

[Shinozoku]

Wow, thanks for all the replies!
Yes, I know Egnater, too, but it's too expensive for me right now, difficult to find, and I think Egnater is more about mid-gain mods?

JTM/Plexi/SL+/Mr Scary

Is the JTM a clean module? I thought it was more crunch!?

About the Mr Scary, I've read that it is a truly great rythm module, but less singing for the leads than, say, XTC or Ultra XL. It's inspired by SLO100. But is Soldano kinda of Hotrodded Marshall, is it correct?
What about two SL+? One would be set for rythm, the other for leads?

Oh, and does anyone can answer this :

My poweramp is the VHT 2/56/2 (6L6 tubes) and I wonder if all the mods will work fine with these tubes? Since most of the mods I'm after are definitely Marshall-voiced, I wonder if I should switch to EL34?

Thanks again?

The JTM can be a nice clean as well as providing crunch

 

[eyeball987]

I think you could get away with one SL+ and using a boost pedal for leads. That is what I do anyway.

 

[christianguitarman]

I would stick with your 6L6's for now. If you do not like the tone then try el34's. don't switch without trying the 6L6's first... you may also really like 6550 tubes... they have HUGE, Fat tone... I have them in my RM80 combo and I love them. Here is my advice for modules:

1. Blackface, Deluxe, Tweed (Deluxe will give you a little crunch when cranked so will Tweed)
2. Deluxe or JTM (depending on the level of crunch you want to obtain)
3. Brown, Plexi, SL+ - the Mr. Scary seems to have some mid-scooping going on but I love it : )
4. Mr. Scary, Ultra XL

I like to have similar tone between my modules and I use a single overdrive pedal to boost on occasion. I have an RM4 with RT 2/50 and here is how I run:

1. Blackface ( run on channel 1 of RT2/50 w/ 6L6 - gain about 50-60%)
2. Deluxe ( run on channel 1 w/ 6L6... keep gain about 75-80 %)
3. Brown or Recto ( I switch them sometimes... channel 2 w/ EL34's - Gain on Brown about 70-80%, Gain on Recto about 50-60%)
4. Mr. Scary ( run gain at about 75-80% )

The only pedals I use are delay, reverb (which usually stays on, about 15% less depending on environment), overdrive and Wah.

 

[Zorglub]

Thanks christianguitarman, of course I'll give the 6L6 a try!! :wink: Sounds great with my 570. But I'd like to be able to have EL34 on one of the VHT channels, but unfortunately I can't without modifying it. The 2/56/2 Black Beauty doesn't feature a EL34/6L6 switch like the old 2/50/2.

Something I miss since I'm into rack gear (2 years) is the immediacy you get from a regular rig (head). You know, more punch, fastest pick attack. And it seems that most preamps on the market lack that. How the RM4 compare to other good preamps? (Engl 570SE / Engl 580 / VHT GP3 / JMP-1 / Mesa Triaxis / etc.)

For the mods, after checking several videos/reviews/MP3, I think I would go for :
1) Blackface
2) Brahma
3) SL+ (2009) or Mr Scary (I have to try)
4) XTC (maybe I'll send this one to Salvation to get upgraded)

 

[christianguitarman]

sounds like a solid plan on the modules. I've never really tried many of the other preamps on the market. I broke into rack gear with a digitech 2112, then a line 6 Pod Pro... (yeah, I know, pathetic) the RM4 puts both of those to shame!!! I've always wanted to try the ENGL but i've never had a chance. I think the RM4 paired with the RT2/50 has alot of character and I get ALOT of punch out of it. I love having the Presence and Density knobs on the power amp!!!

Another thing I like about running a rack is tt also allows me to have better sounding effects... I run my OD's in front of my preamp, then my Delay / Reverb after (I don't like the tone through the effects loop...) and I run my sonic maximizer in the effects loop. If you use delay's, reverbs, or other similar effects I think the rack allows you to have MUCH better tone and versatility!

 

[Zorglub]

This Engl is an encyclopedia of guitar tones. I can't think of a sound it couldn't cover. But that's one of my concerns, once you know what you're looking for, you don't need such a versatility.
And I'm not really in love with the Engl trademark sound. The clean tone is a bit cold and sterile, or to harsh with all the bright switches engaged. For some reasons, the mid-gain tones are difficult to dial in. The Hi-gain sounds cut right even through the densest mix (I set the mids at five, with all the mid switches on), but I find it more "kwak-kwak" than "Krunch-Krunch", if you see what I mean!? The Lead channel is amazing, I really love it. Creamy, sustains for days, spreading harmonics everywhere across the fretboard. A great channel.
I bought it because the VHT GP3 was discontinued for the Europe (because of the RoHs). It's ok, I really can't complain 'bout my gear, but you know, "the tone in your head"... :wink:
I really want to give this RM4 a try. I hope it will work for me.

I love having the Presence and Density knobs on the power amp!!!

The VHT 2/56/2 is amazing, too. You can choose between A / AB mode for each channel. You have Presence and Depth knobs, too, and a voicing switch for the Hi-mids. And the best, you have a -10db switch for each channel. It means that you can crank the poweramp to pure hotness without reaching ear-splitting levels. Awesome feature for recording or playing at home. The only missing thing to get a perfect 10 is the lack of the EL34/6L6 switch. But I have to seriously consider to get it modified.

 

[jdr94]

i'm new to the mts series so take my suggestions with a grain of salt, but this is what i have planned......

kh-1 for the cleans
xtc with the cap change
mr. scary/ultraXL

i may later replace the xtc with a SL+

i cant believe you dont like the engl570. i've never tried an engl but have heard nothin but good about them.
do you use an eq after the 570? could make all the difference.

 

[pj1967]

That's too weird. I had the same experience. After 6mos of monkeying around with the E570 (I did like the clean and crunch channels, but not the lead channels so much) I picked up a RM4 and loaded with:

Clean
Plexi
SL+
1086

I do have the XTC, Ultra, Ultra XL, and a Treadplate modules, but haven't really checked them out yet. I have a Grail on the way.

I run the RM4 into a Mesa 20/20 with effects in between.

I also have an E670EL34 head, but like the E570, it just doesn't "grab" me like I expect it should. So, I picked up a Mesa Mark V head and love it.

--PJ

 

[Zorglub]

Thanks for your answers.
jdr94, I didn't say I don't like the 570SE. But it didn't end my quest for the sonic grail. Plus, I bought it really cheap. Even if it's not exactly my dream preamp, it's still an amazing piece of gear! That's exactly why I wanna know if it would be an improvement for me to go with the RM4!?

pj1967, how would you compare your RM4 with the 570SE? I'm monkeying mine since 2 years! :lol:

 

[jdr94]

zorklub- ah i see. yeah i think its the nature of the beast. us guitarists will never be completly satisfied :lol:

keep us updated and let us know what you end up with and why. good luck on your quest. i'm just startin mine too.