tube recommendations for various modules- sticky?

[9985]

A thought for a sticky: Lots of opinions about what the best preamp tubes are for various modules. I dug around on some searches and found threads oriented towards individual modules- i.e. "what are the best tubes for my Treadplate?" Nothing that I could find with info about multiple modules, it's an easter-egg hunt.

I think it would be tremendously valuable to have a single spot that had tube suggestions for ALL the modules. Tube swapping is the "mod" that anyone can do, and has a major impact on tone, I think there is a real need for this area to get more attention from the experienced members who have successfully found great sounding combinations.

Obviously there isn't a single answer for the "best" tubes- it is going to be a matter of taste/opinion, so there would be a need to capture multiple tube suggestions for each module, shaping the tone closer to various amps (lower gain recommended tubes on Top Boost for cleaner Vox, and higher gain ones for the Brian May tone.)

Lots of ways this could go, maybe a link to a table or even a spreadsheet rather than trying to do inline text in a post- we could try a weekly poll for each module & then compile the top 2 or 3 recommended combos into a sticky. Could even include links to vendors that sell them.

Looking for some thoughts/suggestions- I'm hereby volunteering to help compile the info.

 

[crankyrayhanky]

I like this...I never did get into a tube swapping for tone- mostly because I know little of the impact and just make due with what comes in the box

Somebody take me to tube school

 

[Mailman1971]

I like this...I never did get into a tube swapping for tone- mostly because I know little of the impact and just make due with what comes in the box

Somebody take me to tube school

+1 on that! Does it make a BIG difference in the overall tone? Or maybe 10%? Inquiring NOOB's want to know!

 

[9985]

so what about collection method? I think we could either ask for tube recommendations to be posted as text in this thread, or go with multiple (per module) polls.

 

[Firefighter1428]

Id try the poll Idea, See if we can get everyone in on this

 

[9985]

Id try the poll Idea, See if we can get everyone in on this

Hmm- the more I thought about it after looking at the way the forum's poll template works, the less I think that will be a good way to do it. I would have to list specific tubes and just have people weigh in by picking from a limited number of options.

The basic problems with trying to do it via poll:

A) I don't know enough about which tubes to list for each module (if I did, we could bypass the poll entirely - I would just post that list!)

B) even if I did know 3 or 4 candidate tubes per module, there is no way to distinguish between a guru's vote based on research and some 12 year old clicking randomly who doesn't even own that module. I think we need more visibility of the input to be able to cull out the really good recommendations from the dreck/trolling.

So, unless someone else has a better idea, I think it's going to have to be just posts in this thread. How's this for a template:

Module: (Module name- i.e. "Top Boost")

V1 tube: (list the exact manufacturer and model, include a hyperlink to the manufacturer or a trusted seller's website)

V2 tube: (same as above- indicate whether you recommend identical or mixed tubes between V1 & V2)

Comments on tone improvements:

(try to limit the flowery adjectives, most useful would be about differences from stock tubes in terms of gain, hi/mid/low emphasis- the key would be to include any assessment of whether it makes tone closer to a particular model/variant of an amp. Example: These tubes in the SL+ make it sound closer to a JCM800 than the stock." Or "These tubes give my Recto a tone closer to the Orange channel on a Dual Rectifier than stock tubes." )

OK - now we need the smart guys to start populating the thread with input....

 

[9985]

uhh- bump? people still interested in doing this? We need input from tube brainiacs with some actual recommendations...

 

[Julia]

Okay, here's what I've tried:

Brahma:

V1: Tung Sol RI 12AX7
V2: Marshall White Label ECC83 -- this is a Shuguang ECC83.

Comments: I found the JJ ECC83S's a bit dark. These give the module a bit more bite in the gain department.

However this is all in the context of a Lynch Box with a Telefunken 12AX7 in V1, the stock JJ in the tube immediately after the module, and a JAN GE 5751 in the PI. JJ EL34Ls biased at 37.5 mV each.

 

[Pedro]

V1: Tung Sol RI 12AX7
V2: Marshall White Label ECC83 -- this is a Shuguang ECC83.

Comments: I found the JJ ECC83S's a bit dark. These give the module a bit more bite in the gain department.

However this is all in the context of a Lynch Box with a Telefunken 12AX7 in V1, the stock JJ in the tube immediately after the module, and a JAN GE 5751 in the PI. JJ EL34Ls biased at 37.5 mV each.

Basically there's one "general rule" to keep in mind when selecting your pre tubes and aranging the order of how they are placed (..in the modules..). When I was experimenting with the different brands\flavors, I had alot of feedback froom Doug at Doug's Tubes.

For the modules, Doug suggested following this method. Your v1 should be the TONE tube, and then make the v2 the DRIVE tube. When you consider it, same as a signal from the guitar. Pickups generate the tone, then drive the signal with the OD of your choice.

The PI tube should be of a better quality brand (as in Julia's decision for the JAN)...I think what comes stock in the RM's is a EH12AX7 (...I think...) which is also a very good tube.

I agree with Julia about the ECC being dark (and sorta muddy sounding), so I have been sticking with TSol's in v1 and either a c8\c9 or EH12ax7 in v2. This seems to be the combo of choice for my liking. I have used the JAN in my SuperV, with a TSol in v2...and WOW....it was sweet! :wink: ...next is to place the JAN in the PI.

Anyways, there's my 2 cents worth!

Pedro

 

[droptrd]

Im still experimenting with tube combos in my RM100. havent completely settled on anything yet. But, I go by this theory when picking tubes. This is what Mesa recommends for their amps.

V1 in the modules should be a good low noise/stable tube. No high gain. Like Pedro said, you get your tone from V1. The tung sol and sovtek lps are good choices here - as well as many NOS tubes

Then, V2 (and V3 for other amps) is used to color your tone suited to your style. For example - for blues, maybe you would want a warm and mellow attacky tube. For cleans, something with big loose bottom for hendrix'y tones or you can go the other way with a tight, lower gain tube for ultra clean spank. And of corse for metal, you would want a tight aggressive tube of the high gain variaty.


Just my thoughts on the matter.

 

[Shinozoku]

On the subject of those Tung Sols, does the RM100 have ANY cathode follower stages? That would be a useful bit of info in a tube thread on here so people know where to put their TS's

 

[okstrat]

One thing you could also do is put a 12AU7 in the first slot for your clean modules (blackface, KH1, or other fender modules) - it fattens the tone and gives you a cleaner sound. If you had a crazy high gain module that you rarely went over 1/2 on the gain knob, you could try one there too.

Before you go too crazy buying NOS tubes like old Telefunkens and Mullards also remember that circuits nowadays are FAR FAR gainier than what they were back in the day - it's been my experience that a lot of older tubes are very microphonic in high gain amps. What would work great in a 60s Fender may not fare so well in a modern high gain amp.

Pete

 

[Julia]

The Telefunken? When I got it you do realize nothing is free. I had to sit and listen to this guy's war stories for 3 hrs so I could get it for $30. It was NOS and in original box. Still tests as new. And was very low microphonics.

The JAN GE 5751 is a 1980s tube I got from KCANostubes.com for $25 along with that Tung Sol reissue. The Tung Sol ri is very similar tonally to the Telefunken, but I hear the new ones don't last as long. We'll see.

I tend to like to drop the gain a bit in a high gain amp to give me room to hit it with a tubescreamer for a solo boost.

 

[bj4rd]

Has anyone tried a 5751 in the v1 of a low-mid gain module? I tried using a 12AT7 in the V1 of the blackface and it sounded awful. I think I'm going to try a 5751 and a 12AU7 there and see how it sounds.

 

[okstrat]

The Telefunken? When I got it you do realize nothing is free. I had to sit and listen to this guy's war stories for 3 hrs so I could get it for $30. It was NOS and in original box. Still tests as new. And was very low microphonics.

You got lucky with the telefunken... remember that in old/low gain amps, what were acceptable levels of microphonics were higher than today. In the 50s they weren't thinking some crazy amp was going to have 4 or more cascaded gain stages. I bought a bunch of NOS tubes from a guy out in the country 10 years ago - got some telefunken 12ax7s, mullards, RCA grey and black plate, Tung Sol 5881s, a TON of 6V6s, etc... the power tubes sounded excellent, the preamp tubes varied. The telefunkens I had were very bright and 'hi/fi' sounding... my favorite of the old 12ax7s were probably mullards. Out of 10, about half were ok for high gain amps.

preamp tubes should last a looooonnnnng time. Two things that shorten their life are shock and vibration - especially when they are hot. If you can, let your amp cool down before you move it after a gig. and combo amps chew through preamp tubes faster than heads because they are being subjected to vibration when you crank that combo up.

Pete

 

[bhuard75]

i'm not a tube guru, but bought some tubes during the past week and i can share my experence.

i purchased tubes for my modified my scary. it had a chinese in v1 and a EH in v2.

i picked up a tung-sol 12ax7 gold pin, t-sol 12ax7 and a mullard "RI" 12ax7.
i bought the gold pin specifically for v1 for the module, and threw in the ts 12ax7 in v2. huge differnce in clarity. the scary was a noisey module i found, anyway this tube combo quited the module down substancially. i really didnt notice a dramatic change in the warmth catagory but there definiatelly was a change in tightness in the low end. i was pleased with this upgrade.

threw in the mullard in v2, it warmed up teh module alot at the expense of the low ends tightness. very rich and warm. great if you just play chords. if you need clear not seperation the mullard is not a good choice.

 

[bmi]

Module: XTC

V1 tube: Tung Sol Gold Pin or 12AX7B China

V2 tube: 12AX7WA Sovtek

Comments on tone improvements:
Of course the real V1 which is in the amp not in the modul affect the tone.
The 12AX7 of the effects loop are not important, as the V2 in the module for the PI.(you can reduce the gain with a 12AT7 in V2)
For me the most important combination is made with V1 of the amp and V1 of the module, unfortunatly. So you have to make choice. What will work for high gain didn't work for clean.
The best combination for my XTC is Tung Sol Gold in V1 amp, 12AX7WA in V1 & V2 module or what you want for V2 module(if the module is not harschy at his maximum no 12AT7, if it is harschy you can try one).

 

[9985]

Of course the real V1 which is in the amp not in the module affect the tone... For me the most important combination is made with V1 of the amp and V1 of the module, unfortunately. So you have to make choice. What will work for high gain didn't work for clean.

Hmm- this is an interesting point - is there consensus on the degree the head V1 preamp tube impacts tone? Other opinions about which tubes are best for V1 in the head? How about specific recommendations for what particular tone impacts for high/mid/low gain modules in general?

I personally like to have a mix of high & low gain modules at the same time in my RM100, a bit of a bummer to think that there the head V1 tube selection has that much impact- a serious limitation on the whole MTS concept if the most recommended tube(s) for that position for high gain sound like crap with low gain modules or vice versa.

Some thoughts, o tube gurus?

 

[JKD]

I found when I went for the gainy chinese tubes, the whole amp took on that 'rooooaaar' that makes these tubes so good in the Marshalls and Marshall style modules.

Same with any tubes that have that mid push kind of dark tone....colours up the tone.

Choose a fairly neutral sounding low(ish) gain tube for v1 in the head.

Egnater uses the Sovtek 12ax7wa/7025s .....seems to work out OK.
The EH 12ax7 supplied by Randall isn't horrible either.

I've never really tried it but I suspect a decent 5751 would work well for a nice clean signal.....that should give you either more headroom or more influence from the module gain stack when you crank it maybe?

 

[9985]

I might pick up one of those Sovteks & swap it in to see what difference it makes from the stock one.