Voicing blackface vs KH1

[jhsunix]

Hi all, new here; ordered a RM100kh and waiting for it to arrive;;

I am curious, I see all the comments about how the KH1 is all made for higher output pickups and whatnot, but no real comments on how they work with passive PUs. I'd say the pickups I'm using are on the higher side of medium output (Ibanez JPM with steve's special and air norton).

Also, is it really **exactly** the same as a Blackface module with more headroom? Is there something one can do that the other can't? Say would I be able to drive the blackface module into blues territory but not the KH1? And conversely, should I have any worries about not being able to drive the KH1 with passive PUs to add some dirt?

More importantly, how is the voicing different?

I'm basically debating whether or not obtaining a Blackface would be worth acquiring -- hoping to get myself out to a dealer soon to check the modules out, but figured I pool some opinions on the forum first since it looks like this hadn't really been discussed in depth.

Thanks in advance.

 

[johnodge]

Funny, I was thinking of posting this exact question...

 

[jhsunix]

Yeah, curious if there are any people who own both who can chime in if they find both useful in their own right and sound different enough to justify owning both.

 

[Ulvo]

Well, I have a KH-1 and a Blackface sitting on my desk right now, so here?s the answer:

After looking at these modules component by component, I can find only ONE component that makes the KH-1 into a KH-1 innstead of a Blackface (except of course from the chickenheads and black faceplate :wink: ).

The only difference I am able to find is C14. In the Blackface this one is 25pF, while the KH-1 has 180pF.

This leaves me to believe that the headroom-talk is nothing but bulls$#t.
The difference in values will do some changes in the eq-curve, but increase the headroom? I believe not.

 

[jhsunix]

Interesting.. Now I have no clue what the differences in the caps would do to the EQ curve, but would it be a safe assumption that maybe the perceived headroom would be increased if maybe more of the signal is EQ'd out?

I remember a thread with a AB test clip and I thought it sounded pretty similar, but could not tell for sure because the signal was not dry.

 

[Ulvo]

Well the c14 cap mainly will influence the mids. In more of a mid- an high gain cicuit it would change the gain structure quite a bit, but however in a clean module like this it won?t affect anything but the overall eq.

You are right about the modules sounding a bit different, but to my ears the difference is so small, I would proably not be able to tell them a part in a band setting.

The KH-1 has a bit fuller mids, meaning it looses some of that fender-sparkle to my ears.

 

[fatang]

I use a KH-1 as now and fully attest to it being more full in the mids than the Blackface. My previous clean was the "Clean" which is pretty full and dark comparatively.

The Blackface was just too shrill and scooped for me and though I didn't care for the Eggy Twin it was less abrasive to me.

Robert

 

[RD/Steve]

i too switched to a kh1 from blackface.

the tone stack on all the kh modules has a very wide sweep. you cannot just set it to your "nomal" settings and go. these modules beg to be fine tuned to what your looking for. so...there is more of a difference between the kh1 and a blackface than one change on the board. the kh1 can sound like a blackface if you want it to. (just tweak!)

 

[okstrat]

The only difference I am able to find is C14. In the Blackface this one is 25pF, while the KH-1 has 180pF.

Blackface is 250pf, not 25.

 

[Ulvo]

The only difference I am able to find is C14. In the Blackface this one is 25pF, while the KH-1 has 180pF.

Blackface is 250pf, not 25.

You are off course absoloutly right

 

[jhsunix]

Ok, just a quick question;; so I have been putting these values into the Duncan Amps Tone Stack Calculator into the Fender stack, and I thought I should have been using the C1 position. Which worked for the old values. But with the corrected 250pF and 180pF values, it is having the opposite effect.

Am I just plain putting it into the wrong place? Or is this approach totally wrong to begin with to visualize the differences?

Also, RD/Steve, are you saying the pots are different as well?

At this point I'm just splitting hairs without using my ears, cause I'm just itching to get my amp!

 

[RD/Steve]

yes...the pots are different.