Synergy heads vs SYN1/SYN2

[dgadwa]

One thing that has come up now and then is the discussion about using a separate preamp/power amp ala SYN1 or SYN2 vs. an actual amp head and how it affects the responsiveness and overall tone.

My question is this: Is the internal layout of the SYN30/SYN50 essentially a traditional amp head layout or is it essentially a separate preamp/power amp?

Bonus points if anyone wants to elaborate a bit more on the technical differences between these two configurations. I believe it's got something to do with the way that the path deviates on its way to the transformers vs. the typical amp head circuit, but obviously that's a pretty flimsy explanation.

I'm kinda torn between the possibility of having two SYN2 units and the "known good" feel of an amp head.

Thanks!

 

[BurnBackTime]

I would assume the main difference in feel/response would be the difference between the output transformers in a single rack space power amp and a full sized "traditional" output transformer in the head version. I only have a Syn-50 so I can't compare but I enjoy playing through the amp so there's that.

 

[dgadwa]

Yeah, that would be my assumption as well but Synergy is different enough... Would love to hear more from someone like Steve Fryette... I'm quite happy with my SYN1 but I can't help thinking that my next amp may be a SYN50.

BTW @BurnBackTime... Have you had any time in with the SYN1/SYN2 vs. you SYN50? Curious to know if people find themselves missing the Sag control on the SYN50. I've read most of the threads here on the subject and seems to be that opinions vary on it. Personally, I LOVE the way it can take some of the bite off of the tighter/dryer modules like the Pittbull and the VH4. Especially nice to dial in the feel when swapping between guitars with active/passive pickups or Fishman Moderns.

 

[BurnBackTime]

Yeah, that would be my assumption as well but Synergy is different enough... Would love to hear more from someone like Steve Fryette... I'm quite happy with my SYN1 but I can't help thinking that my next amp may be a SYN50.

BTW @BurnBackTime... Have you had any time in with the SYN1/SYN2 vs. you SYN50? Curious to know if people find themselves missing the Sag control on the SYN50. I've read most of the threads here on the subject and seems to be that opinions vary on it. Personally, I LOVE the way it can take some of the bite off of the tighter/dryer modules like the Pittbull and the VH4. Especially nice to dial in the feel when swapping between guitars with active/passive pickups or Fishman Moderns.

I have a Syn-1 as well that I use at my recording desk. I use the sag control on it when dialing in tones but I don't miss it at all on the syn-50. The sag control, as far as I understand, is there to mimmic the sag that happens naturally with a tube amp as you play and the power supply voltage dips and recovers. Like when you really dig into the chugs. The Syn-50 has a nice natural sag feel when you do this. At least in my experience. It sounds great with a Powerball module for the chugs and a BEBB for crunch and cleans.

 

[Elric]

My question is this: Is the internal layout of the SYN30/SYN50 essentially a traditional amp head layout or is it essentially a separate preamp/power amp?

Preamps are always a separate part of the circuit from the power amp whether it is a rack or a head. The big difference is that in an amp head, the head's preamp and power amp share the power supply, so any voltage/power draw for either part of the circuit comes from the same PSU. So, when the power supply sags under load due to the tube power amp draw it affects both preamp response and power amp response in the head because, they're shared. A standalone preamp typically will not tax its power supply and does not exhibit any change in behavior due to this effect, so it will not be affected by a sagging power line in the power amp.

Personally, I do not care much about the response from a sagging preamp power supply; so I am fine either way. But some folks feel otherwise and claim they prefer the heads for this reason.

The SYN30/SYN50 are going to have this shared power supply behavior because the preamp and the power amp share the same supply. This is why the heads do not have the 'sag' control/simulator that is on the preamps.

I have a SYN30 and SYN2+SYN5050. Honestly, they are both great and you cannot go wrong with either, IME. People worry about this stuff way too much.

 

[BurnBackTime]

Nailed it.

 

[dgadwa]

Thanks again @Elric. ...and also for the decisive second from @BurnBackTime.

I understand that the Sag control on the SYN1/SYN2 is just an approximation of power amp sag but still, I'm surprised that this kind of control isn't built into more amps, either way. Clever tone stacks and graphic EQs are fine but for me, having some control over the attack transients makes a big difference - especially with certain modules.

Totally agree that "people worry about this stuff too much". I am not a gigging musician or recording artist so it's not like any of these things stand between me and success. Some of my favourite records have nothing more than a 2203/2204 + TS recorded at a shitty studio, in a rush, by people who didn't really care about the band or the music that they were recording. Mainly, it's that the more that I learn about these things, the more I want to know how they work.

 

[metalmm785]

I think the most important thing is to make sure that if you go separate preamp/power amp, that you pair your preamp with a great power section.

Obviously, if you get the SYN-50, you have something that will work well with all the modules. It also has Heyboer-spec transformers, which are of great quality.

 

[Elric]

Thanks again @Elric. ...and also for the decisive second from @BurnBackTime.

I understand that the Sag control on the SYN1/SYN2 is just an approximation of power amp sag but still, I'm surprised that this kind of control isn't built into more amps, either way. Clever tone stacks and graphic EQs are fine but for me, having some control over the attack transients makes a big difference - especially with certain modules.

Yeah, I get the feel thing... The good news is that, really, with the heads you can get that effect without any kind of simulation, which was the original question. They're 'real' amps, just with a modular preamp section. So, I think, unless you really love having a manual/variable sag control (that does not require you to change the amp's volume like a head ); you'd likely want to go with one of the heads to get the natural effect and then you'd not have to worry about it.