5751 in PI

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Ampoholic

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So... Been watching some posts on 5751 tubes as replacement for the 12AX7 in the PI position. The 5751 supposedly being 70% of the gain of 12AX7. So I ordered 2 to try them out. Placed my order with the Tude Depot on Tuesday and they're in the amp today. (TN to CO)

1st impression is there seems to be some improvement in clarity. Also it seems all modules (Stonerverb, Gigmods Plexi/Brown, KH3) are sustaining more. I put a 5751 in the KH3 also and it was sustaining forever, great for Europa.
 
I put a 5751 in the PI of my RM50 and found the same thing. I just ordered 2 more for use in other higher gain modules and my RM100. I tried it in my modded Scary and the clarity added was clearly evident.

I highly rec this tweak!
 
Same story here. I got a Tungsol in the V1, JAN in the PI, and Ruby 6550C's...plus a Penta 12AX7M and Tungsol in the 1087. I have never had an amp that sounds this good. Clarity is so much better, i don't need my ISP. Tone is a lot deeper, fuller, and stronger. The 5751 is definitely a great tube for the PI.
 
JKMV12 said:
Same story here. I got a Tungsol in the V1, JAN in the PI, and Ruby 6550C's...plus a Penta 12AX7M and Tungsol in the 1087. I have never had an amp that sounds this good. Clarity is so much better, i don't need my ISP. Tone is a lot deeper, fuller, and stronger. The 5751 is definitely a great tube for the PI.

I have a second Tung Sol on the way. I loved the tone I was getting with my modded Brahma with it in V1. Too bad it only lasted 2 hours before it died. :(
 
I just put a NOS GE 5751 in the PI spot and POOF! All the "mud" is gone! There was a 2-3db bump at 300hz that needed to be scooped out via EQ to "open up" all of the modules when recording. That led to less use of the presence and treble on the amp, delivering a more "open" and more usable sound.

My RM20 came stock with JJ's, so I may try some further tweaking in order to "clean up" the amp.

I've also replaced the V1 in all of my modules with NOS 5751's.

Thanks for the tip! MUCH appreciated!
 
Here is a quick question. Why does this happen?

I don't need a long dialogue on electronic theory and I get that the 5751 is a lower gain tube but if I am running a quad (or a pair for that matter) of 6550's in my RM's, is that one 12AX7 in the PI really creating that much breakup to push out of the power section?
 
I might be pulling crap outta my a$$, but I believe it's more a matter of SLIGHTLY cleaning up the signal not that the 12ax7s are breaking up too much.
 
Here's the link. Keep in mind at the time GT didn't have a 5751 available, and now they're using Sovteks which suck in comparison to the NOS.

http://www.guitaramplifierblueprinting.com/files/Phaseinverter.pdf

And blame the Cesar Diaz connection for the 5751 going in the PI. He's where I originally got that idea. Less gain than a 12AX7 but same output = no volume reduction = tightening the signal hitting the power tubes. Less gain = less noise. Less gain added at the same output = less alteration to your tone. Done.

Whereas a 12AT7 will reduce volume as well because it has less output than the 12AX7.

So you've got your signal chain --

guitar > amp > 12AX7 (probably HG) > 12AX7 * 2 (module) > Loop (12AX7 for send/return) > Master Volume > Phase Inverter > Power tubes

if you've got a little noise in the signal, even though you may not notice it with a clean preamp, when you run that through a high gain module that noise will get amplified every single step of the way. Then you get to the Phase Inverter which has to take and invert that signal and send it to the power tubes. Now if you drop a high gain tube in this position, and if you turn up your master volume high enough you've actually got this tube doing double duty: it's flipping the signal AND adding another gain stage. By this stage you can have a ton of noise.

The 5751 being of lower gain but the same output as the 12AX7 allows the PI to more clearly flip the signal without adding gain to it. Hence it just amplifies that noise less.

I first came across this solution when I was trying to bring my 5150 II under control. I wanted more volume with less squeal.

I don't know if I really understand the theory behind it, but bottom line is that it works.
 
Oh no, next week I turn 40 but I think I may enjoy thrash from time to time...should I listen to Julia? I think so, time to get some new tubes!
 
crankyrayhanky said:
Oh no, next week I turn 40 but I think I may enjoy thrash from time to time...should I listen to Julia? I think so, time to get some new tubes!

oh_noes_i_has_let_go.jpg
 
Hey I noticed your ad in Classifieds..... selling all your high gain stuff I see.... and turning 40...

JethroTull-albums-toooldtorocknroll.jpg


Okay, let me help you now.....

Can you say "Stra-to-cas-ter?" Sure. I knew you could.

Can you say "Dee-lucks?" Sure. I knew you could.

How about "Toob-skree-mer?"

You have another 20 yrs before the telecaster and lap steel land. We don't want to get too far ahead of ourselves.

:wink:
 
Did try a 5771 in the phaseinverter last night.
What a differense !

I?ve had a really nasty midrange hump that was impossible to dial out.
You know, like leaving a taste of metal in your mouth when playing. :evil:

Now things got even worse after I sold my Mesa cab (in favor of a custom TT cab with Eminence super V) and I have to rely on an old KMD 4x12 untill I get my new cab. :twisted:

Had a shitty sovtek 5771 lying around and I thought I would try it out.
(Been running a balanced TAD12ax7 as phaseinverter but never really liked the TAD?s.
Crappy sound and build IMO.)

Voila !!!
Warm, fat mids and singing hights ! :D
Must have been the biggest difference in tube change ever.
Ordered a pair of GE 5771 JAN?s the first thing I did this morning
If the Sovteks worked that well, the GE?s will produce miracles.

Highly Recomended :!: :!:

/Pete
 
I'm a huge fan of the 5751 and have run them in most my amps in the first position. I first used them about 4 years ago in my Jon MacIntyr modded 1983 JCM 800. I got about 60 of them when i bought up a bunch of tubes locally... Ratheon, GE ( white label ), GE ( green Label ), GE ( red label ) GE ( 5 stars ) Phillips, Sylvania, RCA ( red label ), RCA ( white label ), I went through them all and made notes... the Ratheon and GE ( 5 stars ) are my favorites... I have one Sylvania which is the grail.

GE 5 stars being the warmest and ratheon being the clearest with the best upper mids. The Sylvania is really well balanced to bad i only have the one. All of them were made in the 60's.
 
OK, if you want to take the next step in vintage, American made tubes keep the 5751 i the PI and try a 12ax7wa by Philips or Sylvania in VI on the amp.

I won't try too hard to sell this idea since vintage tubes are a finite commodity, but :shock: :twisted:
 
i will give it a try in my rt2/50, PI is the preamp tube in the middle position in the rear of the amp, right ?
 
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