A Perfect Circle/Billy Howerdel tones

[sschultz242]

Ok, so I'm a total tone chaser and have no clue what exactly I want (but hows that different from most of us here right). As of late I've been on a huge APC kick. Yes, i've searched the web and found pics and read all the stuff on Billy's rig and style. I'm familiar with him using the Friedman naked amps and rumor had it he used a Diezel of some kind for a while. I'm curious to see what you guys may think will cop some of his tones. "The Outsider" off of Thirteenth Step is where im looking to go. The cleanish stuff sounds kinda tweedish/plexi to me but I have no idea where to go for the distorsion tones. Just looking for some recomendations and hopefully some of you tone gurus on here will happily lend your ears and time to a noob.

 

[Mike P]

On the first two records, Billy used an early "First 500" Rectifier for both his clean and dirty tones. One the first album, he used Mesa/Boogie 4x12 cabs mic'd with Neumann TLM103 mics. IIRC, on the second, they used the Royer 121/57 combo.

You could easily nail those tones with a Sacred Grooves Diablo. Just make sure you get the Low Gain option for the cleaner sounds.

 

[Mikal69]

Mesa really? I always saw him live with a modded Marhsall type with no logo, some say a Naylor style preamp section, and VHT cabs, same as in the studio by all reports, unless you know something i don't. Recently he's been using a Dave Friedman modded JMP-100 for Ashes Divide and the recent APC re-union tour. always had better luck getting his tones with a Marshall or Soldano style mod than any Mesa types. especially for songs like "the outsider", "pet", "judith" etc.

 

[Mikal69]

 

[Mikal69]

as far as specific mods go, A JF '59RR, Mashall+, Mashaldano, would be the top three I would start with, or if you wanna go low-end, an SL+ can get in the ballpark, keep in mind that he uses alot of FX, and it is probably shaping his tone in some ways, and uses LPs with Anderson H3+ pickups in the bridge, so you'll need something with more kick than a typical PAF style to drive the front end like he does, also makes heavy use of a volume pedal/pot for clean to distortion much like Adam Jones from Tool.

 

[sschultz242]

Mike, I personally never would have guessed recto myself, but recordings are definetly decieving just on techniques alone. You do seem to know your stuff so who am I to say any different.

For the sake of no arguments starting maybe I should just rephrase by asking what are you guys, of any of you are, using to cop that kind of tone.

And what is that headshell-less amp in the bottom of the rack I wonder?!

 

[Mikal69]

the one on the bottom not sure of, but to cop some of his tones, was using a mashall +, lately a JF VHT or Salvo Benzin, which gets me tasty modern Tool tones and some of the heavier APC stuff, was acutally thinking on contacting Friedman to see if he can mod an SL+ into the pre of his "naked/apc" amp.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOYW_TLYZ7Y&feature=player_embedded#!

 

[Mike P]

Mesa really? I always saw him live with a modded Marhsall type with no logo, some say a Naylor style preamp section, and VHT cabs, same as in the studio by all reports, unless you know something i don't. Recently he's been using a Dave Friedman modded JMP-100 for Ashes Divide and the recent APC re-union tour. always had better luck getting his tones with a Marshall or Soldano style mod than any Mesa types. especially for songs like "the outsider", "pet", "judith" etc.

The "First 500" Rectifiers are quite different from the new models. They're more of a "Fat" sounding Marshall than the buzzy, grainy models they released later on. I always thought the records sounded like old Rectifiers.

I spoke to an engineer on those records back in 2007 and he confirmed the old Rectifiers and TLM 103's on the cabinets.

As for his live rig, I would have no idea.

The whole deal behind APC is very interesting. I wish I could share more but without "Chinese Democracy", APC wouldn't exist.

 

[SacredGroove]

The whole deal behind APC is very interesting. I wish I could share more but without "Chinese Democracy", APC wouldn't exist.

Is this a hush-hush reference to Maynard or Axl, by chance? :wink:

 

[Mike P]

The whole deal behind APC is very interesting. I wish I could share more but without "Chinese Democracy", APC wouldn't exist.

Is this a hush-hush reference to Maynard or Axl, by chance? :wink:

Actually, no. I'll tell you the whole story next time we chat.

 

[sschultz242]

The whole deal behind APC is very interesting. I wish I could share more but without "Chinese Democracy", APC wouldn't exist.

Is this a hush-hush reference to Maynard or Axl, by chance? :wink:

Actually, no. I'll tell you the whole story next time we chat.

Now that's just not nice!! Hahaha.

 

[Mikal69]

I can agree with you mike p having owned an original 500 dual rec. #427 was mine, traded it for a vh4, wish I still had it. The lynch grail gets in that ballpark. And could be used fo sho for mer de noms stuff.

 

[Mikal69]

Sg, how would you compare your mk22 to the friedman naked amp.

 

[Mike P]

The whole deal behind APC is very interesting. I wish I could share more but without "Chinese Democracy", APC wouldn't exist.

Is this a hush-hush reference to Maynard or Axl, by chance? :wink:

Actually, no. I'll tell you the whole story next time we chat.

Now that's just not nice!! Hahaha.

I'm listening to the first record right now and it doesn't sound like a Marshall to me at all, but I just did a web search and found an article from 2001 in which he stated that he was using a Friedman modified two input JMP for the tour.

It certainly doesn't sound like a Brown Eye or Hairy Brown Eye to my ears but he's using so many effects that maybe it IS a modified Marshall under there somewhere. But, that would contradict what I was told by one of the engineers, so who knows?

I do think you could easily get both the clean & dirty tones with a Sacred Grooves Diablo, if that helps at all. The other option would be a Sacred Grooves MK22, which is a two input JMP clone.

 

[Mike P]

Sg, how would you compare your mk22 to the friedman naked amp.

I've never played through or heard the Naked before. I've only played through the Dirty Shirley and Marsha amps, along with the BE and HBE for the Randall.

The HBE doesn't sound like the HBE channel on either the Dirty Shirley or Marsha. It's far more compressed and bassy sounding - not open at all like the head. Dave told me he could change the Density & Presence board so that it would be like his amps for like $125 dollars. And if IIRC, he offers a transformer switch as well.

I really like the way my RM100 sounds with all of my other modules, so I haven't taken him up on the offer. Maybe someday, I'll grab another RM100 and have him upgrade it.

 

[Mikal69]

Found some more clips of the naked online. Sounds like the crunch of a marshall with the clarity of a freyette sig x.

 

[soundscapes]

I've never heard of Billy using a Mesa. He stated he recorded the first record with his Friedman modded Marshall into a vht cab miced up with a 57. Les Paul classic with Tom Anderson pups with just a six foot cable straight into the amp. All effects were plugins on his tdm rig.

 

[Isaac]

I checked out these guys because of this thread. Cool stuff. More traditional song structures than Tool. Still heavy though. Keenan reminds me of a very angsty Gord Downie, of The Tragically Hip.