Achieving Tone

[Mike P]

Hey Mike, would you happen to have tried the higher wattage M75's in comparison to the regular 25 watters?

Yes. I actually prefer the 65 watters because I like a little headroom but it's hard to "go wrong" with either. I also prefer the bigger dustcap even though he doesn't believe it makes much difference.

Awesome Aside from the headroom, are there any noticeable tonal differences? Or does it basically just sound like a killer pre-rola Greenback with more headroom? I was wanting to make a 2x12 for my Randall with dimensions based off of a Framus Cobra cabinet, and didn't want to worry about the added smoothness of the Eminence versions, etc. Also don't wanna blow up my speakers So I've been searching for a higher wattage Greenback replacement that will get me the same tone so I don't have to lug around a 4x12.

I have a producer friend that has the Pre-Rolla's in an old Marshall cab and the 65 watt Scumback's in another cab and the difference is negligible, if not inaudible. They're that good.

In a side by side comparison, I slightly prefer the larger dust cap because I feel that it's every so slightly smoother on the top end. That said, I'm ridiculously particular (probably to a fault) and in the end, you can't go wrong with either.

On a side note, I find that the Bogner 2x12 is among, if not the best, 2x12 cabinet for Classic Rock/Modern Rock/Metal that I've heard, with the Mesa/Boogie 2x12 a close second. Both use Marine Grade plywood with the proper finger joints, etc., just in case your interested in an alternative.

 

[Shinozoku]

Hey Mike, would you happen to have tried the higher wattage M75's in comparison to the regular 25 watters?

Yes. I actually prefer the 65 watters because I like a little headroom but it's hard to "go wrong" with either. I also prefer the bigger dustcap even though he doesn't believe it makes much difference.

Awesome Aside from the headroom, are there any noticeable tonal differences? Or does it basically just sound like a killer pre-rola Greenback with more headroom? I was wanting to make a 2x12 for my Randall with dimensions based off of a Framus Cobra cabinet, and didn't want to worry about the added smoothness of the Eminence versions, etc. Also don't wanna blow up my speakers So I've been searching for a higher wattage Greenback replacement that will get me the same tone so I don't have to lug around a 4x12.

I have a producer friend that has the Pre-Rolla's in an old Marshall cab and the 65 watt Scumback's in another cab and the difference is negligible, if not inaudible. They're that good.

In a side by side comparison, I slightly prefer the larger dust cap because I feel that it's every so slightly smoother on the top end. That said, I'm ridiculously particular (probably to a fault) and in the end, you can't go wrong with either.

On a side note, I find that the Bogner 2x12 is among, if not the best, 2x12 cabinet for Classic Rock/Modern Rock/Metal that I've heard, with the Mesa/Boogie 2x12 a close second. Both use Marine Grade plywood with the proper finger joints, etc., just in case your interested in an alternative.

I don't doubt that Bogner puts out a damn fine product. I'm kinda boycotting the whole Mesa Boogie cab thing since everybody and their grandmother uses it in metal today.
Nearly every clip I've heard of a Framus Cobra 4x12 has had this certain vibe to it that I love and would like to experiment by adding into my own sound. I think it's the combination of the Greenbacks and the depth of the cab. I have the interior dimensions of the cab so I figured if it ends up too loose or bassy (not enough cut) I can decrease the depth (or maybe not xD). But I do plan on purchasing only marine grade birch ply for my project

 

[Mike P]

I have the interior dimensions of the cab so I figured if it ends up too loose or bassy (not enough cut) I can decrease the depth (or maybe not xD). But I do plan on purchasing only marine grade birch ply for my project

Please keep in mind that what works for a 4x12 cab doesn't necessarily translate to a 2x12 cabinet. Front loading and rear-loaded cabinets sound different, ports, and air pressure all play a significant role is cabinet sound.

I'm kinda boycotting the whole Mesa Boogie cab thing since everybody and their grandmother uses it in metal today.

With all due respect, this is the exact reason for purchasing a Mesa/Boogie cabinet: You'll know, without a doubt, that you'll be able to easily attain the tones you're wanting to achieve. If the Mesa/Boogie is THE best tool for the job (and that's ALL gear is - a tool to achieve musicality), the simplest solution, in least in my experience, is to choose the best tool in order to create.

Good luck!

 

[Shinozoku]

I have the interior dimensions of the cab so I figured if it ends up too loose or bassy (not enough cut) I can decrease the depth (or maybe not xD). But I do plan on purchasing only marine grade birch ply for my project

Please keep in mind that what works for a 4x12 cab doesn't necessarily translate to a 2x12 cabinet. Front loading and rear-loaded cabinets sound different, ports, and air pressure all play a significant role is cabinet sound.

All facts I'm aware of. I've been plannning this build for over a year lol!
I have a friend who owns the Cobra cabinet, and it's separated into two sections (top and bottom). I figured I would experiment using those dimensions. According to an authority on speakers and cabinets I spoke to on UG, the dimensions made for a great bass cab, though that was with bass speakers. If all else fails I'll drop a couple of bass speakers in it and sell it to a bass player annd work on a Marshall style 2x12.

I'm kinda boycotting the whole Mesa Boogie cab thing since everybody and their grandmother uses it in metal today.

With all due respect, this is the exact reason for purchasing a Mesa/Boogie cabinet: You'll know, without a doubt, that you'll be able to easily attain the tones you're wanting to achieve. If the Mesa/Boogie is THE best tool for the job (and that's ALL gear is - a tool to achieve musicality), the simplest solution, in least in my experience, is to choose the best tool in order to create.

Good luck!

However all my favorite tones are from Framus, ENGL, or Marshall cabs I'm bored with all the "5150/6501 with a Maxon OD808 through a Mesa cab with V30s and a mahogany guitar using EMGs" sound I hear on every other metal album released in the past 10 years.
On top of that, I would like to add a different flavor to my band's sound.

I agree, gear (especially amps, etc.) are tools, but sometimes "The best" is just so overdone and over-polished that the effect of its usage has been cheapened. I'm jaded to that earlier-described sound.

My favorite 5150 tone? Joe Satriani-Time Machine. Probably played through his Marshall cab with Greenbacks
My favorite Boogie tones? Dream Theater, period. Every other (metal) band I've heard using a Mesa cab has gone for a generic "Oh I'm playing this type of music so I can automatically sound good using this gear" sound. Mind you, Marshall cabs fall into this territory, but I simply like recordings of Marshalls better than recordings of Mesas.

Then again, I play thrash, so most of my opinions on tone might be considered moot

Thank you!

 

[Mike P]

Then again, I play thrash, so most of my opinions on tone might be considered moot

Nah, it's cool, Man! Best of luck in your tone chasing!

 

[Shinozoku]

Thanks a lot Oh, and upon further investigation, I found that ENGL's E212VH cabinet has the exact dimensions I'm looking for in a cab (although they used thicker wood than Framus)! So chances are, at least with V30's those dimensions work. though traditionally the same dimensions have been used for Greenies too... Things are looking up for my dream cab! Now if only I could get a job..

 

[Mike P]

Thanks a lot Oh, and upon further investigation, I found that ENGL's E212VH cabinet has the exact dimensions I'm looking for in a cab (although they used thicker wood than Framus)! So chances are, at least with V30's those dimensions work. though traditionally the same dimensions have been used for Greenies too... Things are looking up for my dream cab! Now if only I could get a job..

I've never recorded an Engl cabinet but they sure sound great in a room!

 

[KillTone]

Fun and informative thread. Still, my favorite takeaway is from the first post: "tone tard". Freaking hilarious!

The best advice in this whole thread is to work on the mids. The popularity of "scooped" tone has created a lot of tone tards. Turn the mids back up and make your guitar sing.

OK, back to my whiskey...

 

[speedemon]

wow,

a lot of good posts. Not much to add, but will give you a lesson I paid dearly for. My guitar teacher became famous through a band called Racer X (not Paul Gilbert, the other guy). "Play with conviction" he preached, and it makes a world of difference. Sometimes my playing is sloppy or goofy or generic, but people always "hear" the conviction; purpose, confidence, attack, emotion.

Technique + conviction = awesome tone and playing, work on the one that seems to be your weakness.

My personal advice; educate your repairman if you use one and fine tune your setups.

+1 to dial in your mids, that is what seperates your bedroom from live tone.


Have fun!

 

[scratchbox0]

So, along the lines of speaker cabinets and live sound..I know that there is a tone difference between four speaker, two speaker or single, but how does that translate to a live miked situation? One speaker with a mike so close that it seems it wouldn't matter if there were more than one. It's another of those tone questions I have always wondered.
Being that the MTS rig is heavy enough, I would love to have a small single 12" cab to haul around. Plus, in the size clubs I play, a wall of sound is a liability.
Mike S.

 

[Mike P]

So, along the lines of speaker cabinets and live sound..I know that there is a tone difference between four speaker, two speaker or single, but how does that translate to a live miked situation? One speaker with a mike so close that it seems it wouldn't matter if there were more than one. It's another of those tone questions I have always wondered.
Being that the MTS rig is heavy enough, I would love to have a small single 12" cab to haul around. Plus, in the size clubs I play, a wall of sound is a liability.
Mike S.

I'd recommend the Bogner Cube. It weighs about 40 pounds but it sounds amazing. And to answer your question, it wouldn't make any difference when mic'd through a sound system if you were using a 1x12, 2x12 or 4x12.

 

[crankyrayhanky]

a lot of good posts. Not much to add, but will give you a lesson I paid dearly for. My guitar teacher became famous through a band called Racer X (not Paul Gilbert, the other guy).

dude, you need to start a thread and give up some of that shredding advice Bruce has bestowed upon you

 

[Mattfig]

a lot of good posts. Not much to add, but will give you a lesson I paid dearly for. My guitar teacher became famous through a band called Racer X (not Paul Gilbert, the other guy).

dude, you need to start a thread and give up some of that shredding advice Bruce has bestowed upon you

Amen.

 

[LRStrat]

I understand the problem. You play at home in isolation - no rhythm guitar or bass or drums to muddy your sonic awareness. Then you play with a band and the sonic spectrum is full of noise and you don't cut through.

I play keyboards as well as guitar. My keyboards sounded crap until I realized my left hand was competing with the bass player. Now I only play keyboards with my right hand, leaving my left hand free to eat my shredded wheat. Also, my horn and string fills were lost until I played them an octave higher in a frequency range that was not already occupied by our rhythm guitar player.

Listen to some good guitar bands. Take ZZ Top for example. If you think their guitars sound good, try to isolate some of Billy's lead guitar tones from the rest of the band. Some of them would sound terrible if played alone.

My points?

1. You need a different set of tones for solo guitar than you do for playing guitar in a band.

2. When playing either lead or rhythm guitar in a band, try to find a place in the sonic spectrum that isn't already occupied.

3. Always eat your shredded wheat.

For the very reason of achieving different tones between home practice and gig playing, I'm about to experiment with a MIDI-controlled EQ system, similar to what our honorable tone guru MatFig uses.

Hope the above drivvel is somewhat useful.
Graham

+1 for shredded wheat!!!!!! :lol: :lol: