Anthony or Pete -- Elmwood M90?

[Julia]

Does anyone have any plans for any Elmwood clone modules? Specifically the M90.

I listened to the High Gain Amp shootout. Two amps really pricked my ears were the Framus Cobra (really different) and Anthony already has the Mamba, and the Elmwood M90 which has a fantastic tone.

The rest were just variations on a familiar theme.

 

[Bronco]

Yeah no kidding...the Elmo is outstanding!

 

[hyenik]

I listened only end of samples (complete mix, ?cause for me this part is only important) and it is a pity, that Elmwood with nice tone is not so good adjusted there (too much gain, same like Shiva). For complete mix my favourite are Recto, Screamer and SLO.
Next in the line - Diezels, Orange, M.supertremolo, Rivera, Elmwood
All others are not bad or average, and in this test is for me only one disaster - Cobra, I really hate this "sound".

 

[salvation]

Does anyone have any plans for any Elmwood clone modules? Specifically the M90.

I listened to the High Gain Amp shootout. Two amps really pricked my ears were the Framus Cobra (really different) and Anthony already has the Mamba, and the Elmwood M90 which has a fantastic tone.

The rest were just variations on a familiar theme.

Hi Julia.
Unfortunately, I do not have a schematic for Elmwood amps.
If you find it and send me it, I will build it into the module :wink:

I like elmwood sample too. Although I think that that sound is not very dissimilar to other good higain amps. SLO for example.

I think that the MOST IMPORTANT is how the amp sounds in final mix , with the band(end of these soundclick samples), so this is what I am talking about.

Anthony

 

[Bronco]

Does anyone have any plans for any Elmwood clone modules? Specifically the M90.

I listened to the High Gain Amp shootout. Two amps really pricked my ears were the Framus Cobra (really different) and Anthony already has the Mamba, and the Elmwood M90 which has a fantastic tone.

The rest were just variations on a familiar theme.

Hi Julia.
Unfortunately, I do not have a schematic for Elmwood amps.
If you find it and send me it, I will build it into the module :wink:

I like elmwood sample too. Although I think that that sound is not very dissimilar to other good higain amps. SLO for example.

I think that the MOST IMPORTANT is how the amp sounds in final mix , with the band(end of these soundclick samples), so this is what I am talking about.

Anthony

FWIW, the M60 /M90 clips at the Elmwood site are far better...

 

[Julia]

I've heard those. Elmwoods are in the "lotto" price range.

I really wish that when they do something like this shootout, that they would run the following:

* clean, basic hard rock rhythm, hard rock lead, metal rhythm, metal lead.
* One track for humbuckers then one track for single coils.
* Reamp using all the amps so that you compare apples to apples.

I agree the "in band" context is huge. I've come up with what I thought were great sounds only to have them sound like poop when put together on a recording, and had tones that sounded "meh" alone, but in a band context were great.

I'll see what I can do about rounding up a schematic for the Elmo.

I've got one for the Marshall JVM 410, but then I have no idea who sent that to me.

 

[hyenik]

first rule of making comparison: everytime appeared bunch of unsatisfied people, which advise, what could be better, bigger and faster :lol:

 

[srrdude]

i thought the uberschall sounded amazing.


Many of the other amps weren't dialed or played in such a way that would appeal to me.

 

[Bronco]

I've heard those. Elmwoods are in the "lotto" price range.

I really wish that when they do something like this shootout, that they would run the following:

* clean, basic hard rock rhythm, hard rock lead, metal rhythm, metal lead.
* One track for humbuckers then one track for single coils.
* Reamp using all the amps so that you compare apples to apples.

Good point...also it would have been far better to hear all the heads with appropriately matched cabs. To be sure, it's not like the cab they had was crap (1 V-30 + Scumback M75s), but it definitely makes a huge difference.

And good grief...regarding the price of the Elmo and nearly every other one...we're in an 'economic downturn' right now?? Really? The average price of all those heads had to be $3,500!

 

[okstrat]

Does anyone have any plans for any Elmwood clone modules? Specifically the M90.

I listened to the High Gain Amp shootout. Two amps really pricked my ears were the Framus Cobra (really different) and Anthony already has the Mamba, and the Elmwood M90 which has a fantastic tone.

The rest were just variations on a familiar theme.

My preference is to have my hands on one - not to look under the hood, but to play it - then I can A/B it with a module and mod back and forth. I think I **** near wore out an A/B box getting my slodano right. I've never had any real success just duping a schematic because you're still stuck with the Randall power amp section and first gain stage in the amp that all of the modules are going to share. Easier for me to just use my ears and swap parts until I get it right.

There's a guy in town with an insane amp collection - I'd like to check one out. Last I knew he had an Elmwood (not sure what model though), a Cornford and some other unobtanium amps. I need to get a few things out of the way first though.

Pete

 

[okstrat]

And good grief...regarding the price of the Elmo and nearly every other one...we're in an 'economic downturn' right now?? Really? The average price of all those heads had to be $3,500!

I have a few really nice/expensive amps - a Soldano SLO and a Bogner Ecstasy. Bought em used at good prices so if I didn't like them or wanted to sell them later I could get my money back or even make a buck or three.

Well... right now, looking at average used prices, I'd lose $200-$400 on each amp. If you have the extra bucks around, right now is a GREAT time to buy used gear. I don't see how any of the 'boutique' amps are getting sold new when there's so many cool used amps at bargain prices.

Pete

 

[hyenik]

Good point...also it would have been far better to hear all the heads with appropriately matched cabs.

second rule of comparison - Only one cab!!!!! With more cabs (different speakers) is not comparison, only showing.

 

[hyenik]

last rule of comparison - If you want perfect clip, you must do it yourself. (and then we come back to rule No.1, and round, round round forever

In last 5 years we made maybe hundreds of clips (heads, preamps, speakers, guitars, pickups, cables, strings...) My experiences are, that most of "most important things" are totally overhyped and have only very small influence to final sound. (and two of three MOST important things are mentioned very rarely)
Huge amount of nice sounds exist, and depend only for individual taste. Nothing more. I say, that the most famous and succesfull company of music bussines ever - are companies Libido & Placebo. Unbeatable duo

And this is reason why I fell in love with MTS It can feed my Libido&Placebo (driven by G.A.S.) completely, and only for couple of bucks. And that is GREAT!!!!
Long live to MTS

 

[headown]

last rule of comparison - If you want perfect clip, you must do it yourself. (and then we come back to rule No.1, and round, round round forever

In last 5 years we made maybe hundreds of clips (heads, preamps, speakers, guitars, pickups, cables, strings...) My experiences are, that most of "most important things" are totally overhyped and have only very small influence to final sound. Huge amount of nice sounds exist, and depend only for individual taste. Nothing more. I say, that the most famous and succesfull company of music bussines ever - are companies Libido & Placebo. Unbeatable duo

And this is reason why I fell in love with MTS It can feed my Libido&Placebo driven by G.A.S. completely, and only for couple of bucks. And that is GREAT!!!!
Long live to MTS

-hahaha-
I can feel with you !

Cheers !

 

[Julia]

Pete, if he's got a Modena 90 great. However, that Modena 60 is a helluva nice sounding amp. The clarity of these amps on their high gain settings is IMO great.

It's gonna be a while before I can get anything anyway -- more like around Nov - Dec.

And onto the comparison thing... yeah, same speaker cab. In fact due to the possibility of the mic getting bumped even a little, I'd be tempted to go direct and use a cab model with stock Vintage 30s like everyone can get. So:

* same exact guitar clip (clean recorded)
* reamp using each amp
* same speaker cab
* same exact mic position (and same exact mic) or use a cab model.
* final part of each track adds a band backing track.

 

[Bronco]

Good point...also it would have been far better to hear all the heads with appropriately matched cabs.

second rule of comparison - Only one cab!!!!! With more cabs (different speakers) is not comparison, only showing.

I suppose...this is the classic 'chicken or the egg' argument, but I'm after what sounds best at the end of the day...playing through the same cab for each head automatically injects (the same) tonal qualities into said amp. I want to hear what the amp sounds like through its best available environment...to me, this means a cab appropriately matched to it.

For instance, a VHT can sound really good, but (IMO) ONLY through a VHT cab, with the VHT speakers that Steve Fryette puts in them. I find the same true with Budda amps. Mesa Boogies can sound good through other cabs, but sound their "best" (again IMO) when played through Mesa Boogie cabs.

Speakers are so head dependant for sounding good. It's all finding the right combination. The Egnater and Randall stuff, although moduler, still has a different sound, frequency response and feel than say a 69, 71, or 76 Marshall with Friedman's mods. The Egnater and Randall might be better suited for Vintage 30s (as the manufacturers have typically used over the years, I believe).

Don't get me wrong Hyenik; I completely value your opinion...regardless that I kind of disagree, your clips have ample space on my iPod!

 

[Shinozoku]

A great example of that is the Framus Cobra. The amp was designed around its Greenback cab, so it sounds best through that too

 

[grunge782]

Good point...also it would have been far better to hear all the heads with appropriately matched cabs.

second rule of comparison - Only one cab!!!!! With more cabs (different speakers) is not comparison, only showing.

I suppose...this is the classic 'chicken or the egg' argument, but I'm after what sounds best at the end of the day...playing through the same cab for each head automatically injects (the same) tonal qualities into said amp. I want to hear what the amp sounds like through its best available environment...to me, this means a cab appropriately matched to it.

For instance, a VHT can sound really good, but (IMO) ONLY through a VHT cab, with the VHT speakers that Steve Fryette puts in them. I find the same true with Budda amps. Mesa Boogies can sound good through other cabs, but sound their "best" (again IMO) when played through Mesa Boogie cabs.

Speakers are so head dependant for sounding good. It's all finding the right combination. The Egnater and Randall stuff, although moduler, still has a different sound, frequency response and feel than say a 69, 71, or 76 Marshall with Friedman's mods. The Egnater and Randall might be better suited for Vintage 30s (as the manufacturers have typically used over the years, I believe).

Don't get me wrong Hyenik; I completely value your opinion...regardless that I kind of disagree, your clips have ample space on my iPod!

For the VHT it isn't so much about the cab as it is the speakers. He uses special P50 speakers because of the strange character of the amp. It sounds terrible through all v30's. To be honest a lot of cabs are pretty similar, and I agree speakers are very dependent on the head. The one cab I've used that has made a big difference is the Mills Acoustics Afterburner because of the baffle and dimensions he uses.

 

[Julia]

Okay, but what do you want the modules voiced to? I'd like them voiced to a common speaker like a Vintage 30 or Greenback, but probably the V-30 would be most appropriate. I don't really want them voiced to something I'd have to go buy a special cab and order new speakers to fill out.

The Marshall 1960 w/ Vintage 30s is pretty common. My Avatars are oversized like Orange cabs so will add a little more on the bottom.

Then we get into the voiced for 6L6 or EL34. I'd prefer 6L6 because of the difficulty I've had in finding a reliable EL34.

 

[hyenik]

* same exact guitar clip (clean recorded)
* reamp using each amp
* same speaker cab
* same exact mic position (and same exact mic) or use a cab model.
* final part of each track adds a band backing track.

Yes, this is normal scientific method. But you could hear results on old Randall web. These samples were reamped, and only showed, that this method is not universal. And next point - sound has big influence to your playing style, what about that?

Result is absolutely simple - Ideal sample can?t exist! It is impossible to do. Sorry for that, but this is cruel reality