AXE FX - MTS ?

[///MK]

This question is for anyone out there with an AXE FX.


First off this is not a flame or a plug I LOVE my MTS rig...

but...
Do you find that you prefer the tone of the MTS stuff over the AXE FX models?
I am about to pull the trigger on one based on the ability to consolidate all the stuff I wind up using with the MTS (multi-effects,pedals etc)

If the MTS sounds that much better (Which I am thinking it might) I would still use the AXE on the strength of its effects alone.

Anyone out there care to share there experience with this type of setup..
VR,
///MK

 

[nikki-k]

Rough question, and can only be answered (properly, IMO) by trying both.

MTS is still a real preamp. Used in a head, it is still a head. Sure, there are some minor circuit differences, and as such one could argue otherwise to a very small extent. I go back n forth between pre+power and amp heads as the years pass.

That said, I bought an Axe FX Ultra. And returned it before the trial period expired.

The Axe is.. wicked. Very, very cool. For just doing effects, I could see keeping it. But, I would not use it in front. I wish I could get over it somehow, but any unit that has analogue to digital converters up front simply kills it for me. So, even though the Axe might be able to get a decent pedal emulation going, the converter part eliminates it as an option for me.

Next is amp sim, as well as speaker + mic sim. Definitely cool, but once again, falls short for me. And once again, I wish I could get over whatever it is that kills it. There is this "digital hash" that emulators/modellers have that is like the Batsignal glaring into the Gotham sky. How can one not notice it? Add to that the analog to digital converter thing, and the response is completely different. It is like licking a lollipop with a bit of Saran Wrap on your tongue (IMO). Maybe I can "feel" this difference, and maybe I can hear the "hash." Or, maybe it is a deep psychological thing. Regardless, it is there for me, and as such, rules out the Axe for anything except post amp effects. At $2k, I simply needed to invest elsewhere. Were I making money at playing still... maybe I would have kept it and snuggled up with it at night to try and make nice

100%, no doubts or consideration required: MTS wins.
MTS vs a room of vintage amps? Unless someone else is going to do the hours and hours of work maintaining those heads, once again: MTS.
MTS is not the actual sound of those amps, simply approximations. A little time modding, and the MTS becomes YOURS. Singular tone is there if one wants.

My 3 cents of diatribe and babbling...

 

[JKD]

I thought Pete had an AxeFX...

Killer effects and recording rig..I'd love to try one but can't justify the expense as I barely use any FX.

I've heard a couple of clips that made me go wow but that speaks more to the production/tweaking skills of the individuals IMO.

 

[///MK]

This is exactly what I was concerned would be my reaction.

Again I love that the MTS gives me the room full of amps in a relatively small and manageable footprint.
Its a very big deal to me since I currently work in a prog metal band and have moonlighted in anything between country, top40 you name as studio and guitar guy for hire. Iff the axe could do all of this in 2 spaces then whoo hoo I am in a better place. I am pretty sure its worth the $1.5 - $2k just to replace all of my effects? I suspect I will still use the Randall more often then not when they are side by side and for recording and maybe just maybe for live shows I could use the Axe and a solid state 1U power amp for a close enough live rig that can live in a relatively small 4 space rack case. HMMMM.

Anyone else with an opinion on this?

 

[crankyrayhanky]

never playe the Axe, and my instinct tells me it's nothing more than a glorified pricey line6

I'll take any mediocre tube amp over 0s & 1s

 

[nikki-k]

Follow up to my post (as if I could write more..)

Live: I could see the value in the Axe easily. However, my HUGE problem still lays in the ADC front end. There may be no way to really remedy this part. Anything I have ever tried that has ADC before hitting the amp has failed for me. It is all a feel thing for me in this aspect. I have worked in the digital audio recording field for a decade and a half, and I understand this stuff, so it is not a matter of setting input properly, etc. If the ADC does not have any affect on your playing, then Axe is one sweet rig, especially live.

I have found it rough to find really good dry "amp only" clips of the Axe. When I have, the ~4.8k "modeller hash" is usually there. I have heard a couple ver7 Axe clips of the IIc that did not have this as much as other clips.

For laying tracks quickly, cool. For live use where more than one amp is desired, cool. For someone who cannot afford multiple FX specific units (Eventide top end, Lexi, etc), cool. Other modeller stuff seemed more 2d, while Axe almost gets 3d.. make sense? It really is apples to oranges. But, I have heard good results in software with ReValver as well.

If you have tried a unit that uses an analog-to-digital converter up front.. guitar->cable->unit.. and if that was A-OK for you, then the Axe may just be the best thing ever. I wish I could get past this; would have kept my Axe. But, I seriously doubt it would ever be able to replace my MTS, especially my Pete modded Ultra Lead

 

[audioholic]

I have both, MTS and axe fx. I use both for different stuff. EFX on the Axe fx are top notch, you are starting to see them inline on many pro's rigs, so you can be safe to know that the efx alone are really nice.

I love my axe fx for various stuff. I have used it as just a preamp into powre amp cab and got really good results , and likewise, sine I do alot of production music, I use it direct for recording and get a consistent good sound. It takes some time and messing with to get some of the presets to sound more natural, but its possible. In fact I have heard some killer AXE fx direct sounds that anyone would be hard pressed to deny.

So for quick recordings that really hold up well, the axe is my go to. For some stuff I still whip out mics and use the mts. I just read where another modular user on this board uses his M4 into the axe and just uses the cab sims with good results.

bottom line, the axe is a nice tool to have, they continue updating it ,and its possible to get some nice direct tones or sounds going into power amp cab. just takes some time

 

[guitarcomet]

Here is the best advise you'll hear, so listen up!

I've used nearly everything except some of the highest priced boutique amps.
Modeling preamps are great! I use an M Audio 'Black Box' to record with...I love it!
I've had most of the pedalboards out there (Line 6, Boss ME-50, GT-3, GT-6, Digitech, Zoom, Korg, etc.) and they all have their strengths.
But on stage, they have no balls!
You need a solid tube amp foundation to build a good tone base.
Live sound is far different than studio (a world apart).
I haven't taken the stage without a tube amp since 1982.
I won't do it!
I'm apt to use anything in the studio.
But tubes rule the stage.

I prefer pedals over rack gear and running things in front vs. in the effects loop (except reverb & such).

Just my 2?

 

[Shinozoku]

Haven't tried the AxeFx, but I'd stick to the MTS personally. Keep your pedals and spend that $2k on new modules, tubes, a backup guitar, Gigmods, or something else!

 

[///MK]

Dude, below is not a flaming rant but a clarification of where I am and are coming from..
I already have a couple dozen guitars, more tubes and mods that I can deal with . I am not looking for more stuff Im looking to consolidate gear so that I don't have to bring as much stuff from gig to gig. As it sits now best case on a decent venue gig I bring a power amp / RM4 ,wireless, gmajor, intellefex,BBE etc rack (6-8 space minimum) + my pedal board + my midi controller +,cabinets (3 for wdw) at least two guitars.
I am hoping that if the Axe is good enough I can bring the axe and a single space power amp, wireless (in a 4 space rack case) + one midi controller and two guitars. maybe a monitor for monitoring if the club doesnt have a dedicated monitos system. I might still be dreaming but I think the technology is getting close. I was trying to get first hand accounts of how this technology is not quite ready for prime time or not. server Name player have already made the switch. For recording I suspect Ill still need my old Marshall fenders + Randall MTS etc. Just as I and I assume many on this board are getting rid of there other gear as we buy into the MTS Paradigm the Axe-FX is a extension of that. I would love to be free from lugging 4x12s o gigs. really how many of us curse the times when we have to lug a 100lb Mesa cab or three up a narrow flight of beer sticky stairs.

 

[audioholic]

I think the axe can work great direct in the studio, and great direct at a gig for clean and semi dirty tones. I think some of the high gainer patches just are missing something going direct live and listening via floor monitors.

but live its always nice to be pushing air with a guitar speaker. That being said, the axe fx sounds GREAT running into a power amp cab live. might take some tweaking but it sounds great dude, and a space saver and lighter load by far..

 

[guitarcomet]

Really how many of us curse the times when we have to lug a 100lb Mesa cab or three up a narrow flight of beer sticky stairs.

Well, I'll just say this....

I recently went to see one of the top local regional touring cover bands (Switch) in my state. (they also command a premium fee)
Switch has 2 electric guitar players, an acoustic guitar playing singer, a bass & drums. (they also take turns at keys)
The band has no amps onstage. The drums are all electronic (except the cymbals) and they all have headsets & are fully wireless. (all in-ear monitors)
This "Pro" setup was copied from other bands and is geared to make the stage uncluttered, freeing up the stage area for all sorts of antics (dancers, jugglers, live sex acts) and making the stage area less treacherous to walk/run/cartwheel on.
How did it sound?
Awful!
The Drums sounded good, powerful. The snare was more like a gunshot, but to each his own. The obvious seperation of drum vs. cymbal sound source (i.e. live cymbals) was a stark contrast and took some getting use to.
The vocals were clear but very midrangy. They had feedback problems, too. (that must really suck w/ear monitors) It sounded like they used the ear monitors to judge the FOH mix (the band ran sound from the stage).
The two electric guitars sounded exactly the same. (One guy had a Digitech PB and the other had a Boss GT-3) The guitars blended together in a mish/mash way that made them indistiguishable from each other.
When one of them played lead, it had no balls. Very thin.
As the night wore on, the mix got a little better, but it may have been me getting use to the sound, too.

Bottom line:
In small/medium sized clubs, it's best if everything (except vocals) has it's own individual sound source. It gives a band that "live" sound that most people expect and are use to hearing. It also adds to the separation, dimension and depth.
Even if you go 100% to the board (w/electric cymbals), it would be impossible to recreate the sound you'll get if 2-3 guitar amps are crankin' with a live set of drums (which produce over 140 db in peaks). The energy it would take (amp/speakers) would be more than just moving a 4x12 cab. *wink wink*
But it still wouldn't have the same sound.

If the gigs you're playing are so large that the sound system completely drowns out your stage rig, then I guess it doesn't matter that much.
But if you're playing shows that big, you're making big money and can pay someone to haul your gear and wouldn't need to be asking us LITTLE GUYS what we think. :lol:
So, how big are these clubs/arenas? I'm use to 150-350 head per night. small-medium sized clubs. Sometimes outdoor events @ 1000+ head.
I've never played anything larger. I don't expect I ever will.
I only mic my cab in the bigger places. Otherwise, I just crank it!
Call me old school.....

 

[///MK]

I never thought I came off as holier than though not sure where you got that Please
150-350 is a pretty decent sized venure.
I do more than my share of Moose Lodges, Ski Lodges, Crappy Bars, weddings bar-mitzvahs etc. It is rare for any act I am associated with to do too many shows much bigger than that. I have done a few shows bigger than that but Im not EVH yah know. And for what it is worth there are not too many nationals making much money any more. I can in fact and do sometimes have help/setting up my rig for me. But I can never rely on that luxury since its my day job paying for that. Most gigs just flat out don't pay much even when doing the bigger clubs/halls But that is a different topic all together.

 

[guitarcomet]

Don't take what I say personally.
My words are filled with sarcazm and humor.
I tease all my friends like this.
It's the way I am.

 

[rectifier]

i have tried tried just about every non-tube and multi based preamp there is,and the conclusion is the same... they all do direct recording very well but when matched with a tube poweramp theyjust dont do it for me live and loud....they all sound transistor and thin..imo

 

[TheHunter]

///MK!

I say try it and if you hate it try something else. What is the worst that can happen? You end up with some gear that didnt work in one application and you have to find another use for it, DARN!

When I bought my RM100 I was still into the digital amp idea, knew very little about tubes and the like, I knew I wanted tubes due to the fact that every guitarist I loved and or played with suggested or used tube amps, But to get all the EFX, CABS, Models would have been to expensive for me, so I bought the RM100 and a DIGITECH GNX 4, ran it in the loop dialed in waht i thoughht was a great tone and bam. Well about a year ago now I decided to let go of the GNX and see what the Rm100 could really do, I was disapointed I could not dial in a tone that i liked, tried so many modules and effects (none the likes of the AXE) tried cab after cab.
Finally I listen to some fellas on this forum and got some better modules geared toward my sound and I fell in love with the RM100.

3 months ago or so, I tried the GNX again in the RM100 just to see if i was missing something NOPE not at all. Maybe it would be a great recording tool but live YUCK.

My point is this you will never know what works until you try it. My dream is to play my RM100's on stage, I never had the opportunity to do that when I was in bands cuz I always played bass in a band, another story for another time.
Do what you think would be best for you, noone here can tell you one way or the other. Only you know your situation and your BACK pain LOL :lol:

As for me I SWEAR by my RANDALL RM100's and PETE TURLEY's mods.
The digital lines may be getting close but they will always still be digital.

 

[djd100]

I just got finished comparing the Axe Standard v5.x through a SS amp and dual 1X12's with EV Wizards vs my custom powered RM2 with it's transformerless tube power section (through the same cabs, with a modded for less gain Top Boost and Tweed mods installed), and I noticed the following (testing clean to front end boosted medium gain sounds, no high gain):

a) The Axe sounded fantastic, but did have a "disconnect" if you will, small latency perhaps.

b) The Axe could pretty well mimic our tube amp's natural compression, the mojo is on the advanced tab, "sag" and "dampening" etc, as well as level into the virtual power section (tube rectifier model of course).

c) The Axe's attack high freqs did not sound natural, the chirp coming off the pick etc.

d) The Axe's low freqs didn't compare well.

e) The Axe in no way "bloomed" like the tube amp on long sustaining notes, and this is what I missed the most.

f) All the above objections are not as noticeable in the context of a full mix, and even less so live, but were still noticeable to me in a test environment.

All in all, the Axe really sounds great though and is a screaming deal all things considered. The Axe's FX's are all first rate, and they're worth the money alone, plus it's wide open architecture allows it to integrate perfectly with MTS gear. I tested r5.x, and they're up to r7.x now with more experienced users saying there's been a lot of improvement between r5.x and r7.x, so my test report might no longer be accurate?

 

[tonymustang302]

I just got finished comparing the Axe Standard v5.x through a SS amp and dual 1X12's with EV Wizards vs my custom powered RM2 with it's transformerless tube power section (through the same cabs, with a modded for less gain Top Boost and Tweed mods installed), and I noticed the following (testing clean to front end boosted medium gain sounds, no high gain):

a) The Axe sounded fantastic, but did have a "disconnect" if you will, small latency perhaps.

b) The Axe could pretty well mimic our tube amp's natural compression, the mojo is on the advanced tab, "sag" and "dampening" etc, as well as level into the virtual power section (tube rectifier model of course).

c) The Axe's attack high freqs did not sound natural, the chirp coming off the pick etc.

d) The Axe's low freqs didn't compare well.

e) The Axe in no way "bloomed" like the tube amp on long sustaining notes, and this is what I missed the most.

f) All the above objections are not as noticeable in the context of a full mix, and even less so live, but were still noticeable to me in a test environment.

All in all, the Axe really sounds great though and is a screaming deal all things considered. The Axe's FX's are all first rate, and they're worth the money alone, plus it's wide open architecture allows it to integrate perfectly with MTS gear. I tested r5.x, and they're up to r7.x now with more experienced users saying there's been a lot of improvement between r5.x and r7.x, so my test report might no longer be accurate?

What do you think it would sound like through a tube power-amp?

 

[djd100]

Two ways to approach that...

a) Clean tube power amp = Axe's power amp sims on/close to the SS amp IMO.

b) Pushed/Dirty tube power amp = Axe's power amp sims off/as good as the tube amp I suppose?

From the "bloom" POV it should only improve matters, though again one of the Axe's strengths IMO was it's "feel", or it's mimicking of my tube amp's sag and compression. The negative would be the weight added to the rig etc.

Fractal has a Forum where people can post questions of the more experienced users too. Ask some of them as many use it with it's power amp/cab sims off with tube power amps.

I just got finished comparing the Axe Standard v5.x through a SS amp and dual 1X12's with EV Wizards vs my custom powered RM2 with it's transformerless tube power section (through the same cabs, with a modded for less gain Top Boost and Tweed mods installed), and I noticed the following (testing clean to front end boosted medium gain sounds, no high gain):

a) The Axe sounded fantastic, but did have a "disconnect" if you will, small latency perhaps.

b) The Axe could pretty well mimic our tube amp's natural compression, the mojo is on the advanced tab, "sag" and "dampening" etc, as well as level into the virtual power section (tube rectifier model of course).

c) The Axe's attack high freqs did not sound natural, the chirp coming off the pick etc.

d) The Axe's low freqs didn't compare well.

e) The Axe in no way "bloomed" like the tube amp on long sustaining notes, and this is what I missed the most.

f) All the above objections are not as noticeable in the context of a full mix, and even less so live, but were still noticeable to me in a test environment.

All in all, the Axe really sounds great though and is a screaming deal all things considered. The Axe's FX's are all first rate, and they're worth the money alone, plus it's wide open architecture allows it to integrate perfectly with MTS gear. I tested r5.x, and they're up to r7.x now with more experienced users saying there's been a lot of improvement between r5.x and r7.x, so my test report might no longer be accurate?

What do you think it would sound like through a tube power-amp?

 

[audioholic]

sounded great running through my RT2-50. It takes tweaking and the like get it where you want, but its possible to get a smoking sound.

You can control how much of the power amp sim interaction you want, with the damp feature, and sag, you can control alot. Most of the time I preffered some of the power amp sim on while going into a tube amp. Taking it off completly was fine, but it also made most of the patches sound more like the same. Having it on in taste didn't take away from the sound to me.

here was a very quick clip i did running the Axe FX into my randall power amp and micing my cab. The second part, more distortion, I know I can make better, but this was just for a quick clip, miced up.

http://www.energiestudios.com/Files/Axe%20FX%20into%20Cab.mp3