Brahma module to different spec "Brown" Opinions +

[Whoopysnorp]

Oops...there was an extra 'http://' at the beginning. Try it again.

 

[Mike P]

Can't load the page or link for some reason? Very interested in hearing how that sounds though.

I've been spending some time treating the walls in my basement space but I agree, localizing the cab to a WELL treated all around area vs having it out in the middle of the room is probably the best place to start. It also has the benefit of allowing me to crank it up some and have some of the volume cut in my main listening area. I haven't bought monitors yet so I am essentially monitoring everything through Vic Firth isolation headphones that I bought for listening to music and protecting hearing while I drum. So a couple of things I'll need is 1. a good 1 x 12. Any thoughts on the Avatar 1 x 12's?

As for harshness.. I have the odd peaky highs that I associate to the reissue greenbacks but for the most part, I like what is coming out of the cab when I stand in front of it. What I don't like is how everything sounds when i put it to tape. I find the harshness is like a buzziness to the top end. I need to make the bass spongier and the highs less focused. So I need what I would call a nice dry and raw guitar tone but I need it to be softer than my sound sample that I posted. When I compare to your sounds, there is no comparison really.. your sounds kill mine (tube pre's aside). Even this guy's sounds: http://www.rig-talk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=103444 The second clip is the presonus. def. doesn't sound as good as the tube pre but it is the same tone coming through. That to me sounds closer to what I want. Sounds organic and not solid state. Not sure if that makes any sense though? As you'll see I've asked him more about the signal chain.

I'm thinking i might take a trip to a local music rental place and rent 4 or 5 diff mics and see what I can come up with. Probably won't cost me much to rent them for a weekend and would be cheaper than buying and flipping mics.

1. Vintech/Neve preamps aren't tube, they're solid state. As are SSL, API, Daking/Trident, Great River, etc. There's an internet fallacy regarding "tube preamps" and their use on classic and modern records. 99.9% of all the records you've heard have been recorded on solid state consoles.

2. I don't care for the Avatar cabinets for recording because they're like 1/4" plywood and they're not the 1" birch marine grade plywood. I think you'd be trading issue for issue in that regard.

3. IMO, the Sennheiser e906 is by far the "best" microphone for recording guitars in the under $200 range. It has a 3 position EQ to emulate their other classic offerings (609 Silver, 609 Black and MD409), making it very versatile. I'd highly recommend it although you may find the Heil PR20 or even a Beta 57 to perform better than a 57.

 

[Mike P]

Even this guy's sounds: http://www.rig-talk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=103444 The second clip is the presonus. def. doesn't sound as good as the tube pre but it is the same tone coming through.

Dude, in my room, the difference between those two clips is so incredibly slight. As far as the difference between his clip and yours, he has much more mid dialed in and far less top end. He's probably using a completely different amp as well. It's a bad comparison because you're not using the same exact gear.

 

[Kapo_Polenton]

How would you suggest I dial more mid into that sound? Move the mic further off the speaker closer to the edge?

I was actually looking at both the 609 and 906. I've seen those hanging over the edge of the speaker cab of a lot of pro rigs. (Shenker, Lynch etc..)

 

[Mike P]

How would you suggest I dial more mid into that sound? Move the mic further off the speaker closer to the edge?

I was actually looking at both the 609 and 906. I've seen those hanging over the edge of the speaker cab of a lot of pro rigs. (Shenker, Lynch etc..)

1. Turn up the mids. Add a second mic.
2. From the sound of it, you'd hate the 609 (I don't like them at all). They're very bright, harsh, buzzy sounding mics. Not a fan.

From what I understand from your posts, you're trying to put a round peg in a square hole. Mesa/Boogie 4x12 cabinets are very "modern" sounding. They're extremely heavy and they're built to have that huge bottom end and "scooped" sound, regardless of what speaker you're using.

A good 1x12 or 2x12 cabinet will focus the mids and tighten up the sound considerably, especially since you're limited on other gear (i.e., high end mic pre with EQ).

 

[Kapo_Polenton]

I've got an Avatar vintage spec 4 x 12... but I know what you mean. I've been wanting to pick up a 1 x 12 for recording for some time now. Any recommendations as to a good quality affordable cab? Those bogner cubes are over 500$. For a 1 x 12!

I'll try two mics later today, i've got 5 sm57's, might as well play around with them.

 

[Mike P]

I've got an Avatar vintage spec 4 x 12... but I know what you mean. I've been wanting to pick up a 1 x 12 for recording for some time now. Any recommendations as to a good quality affordable cab? Those bogner cubes are over 500$. For a 1 x 12!

I'll try two mics later today, i've got 5 sm57's, might as well play around with them.

Orange makes a nice 1x12. 18 ply birch.

http://www.beyondeleven.com/Orange-PPC112-1X12-Cabinet-p/Orange-PPC112.htm

I'd swap out the Vintage 30 for something else. Plus, I like the sound of 8 ohms versus 16, but that's just my preference. Beyond Eleven has it for $328.00.

 

[Philc]

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page_songInfo.cfm?bandID=1191247&songID=11167984

Ok be gentle, this is my first mod attempt. I messed around with the mic enough to get something decent enough but I know I'm slightly out of tune (sorry MikeP!) and I haven't mastered the art of compression because it doesn't seem that loud to me. I wish I could get the tone to sound a little more "dry" in the recording like MikeP has but I'll worry about that later.

So some thoughts:

1. You will notice that the mod sounds a bit hairy.. I like this because to me it replicates that plexi on ten or the sound a variac gives you when you drop the voltage. Kind of gives it character so I'm aware it may sound a bit fizzy.

2. I'm missing some mids. I need to really make those mids bark more. I might do this with a cap in c13 as well as open up the mid pot more. I have no knobs or face plate on right now so I can guess that the mid level was about at 1 or 2 pm.

3. a tad too much gain for the 1984 sound to my ears, I can dial it back and this thing sounds great with the gain at noon. Very usable to my ears.

4. My chops are rusty as hell.. I guess that's what happens when you try to split your time between drumming and axing.

What do you guys think? If you think it is a splatty mess, let me know. I'm just trying things out for fun and have zero aspirations to become a modder because I know nothing about this stuff other than having tinkered with my own amps and more or less tried to understand what the PCB equivalent is to the value in an amp. I got some help from Scott months ago and finally put it into practice.I then A / B'd a couple of my modules and this is what I came up with. I'm sure everything could sound better with better mic placement. Safe to say I am losing affection for sm57's. Discuss..

Other than there being too much verb and delay for a mix situation,
I don't know what your deal might be with this, it's literally 99% of the van halen I sound. I like this tone clip better than eddies later tones. Amazing stuff, your mic placement seems perfect as well, well balanced.

so if i were you, i would not change a thing. I don't think I've come across anything that nails the early Van halen sound, even live VH videos


what pickups are you using in this ?

 

[Kapo_Polenton]

The one the only Duncan JB! Thanks for the compliment on the tone.. I guess we all hear things differently. The true test would be for how this sits in a mix. I might try that next but will blend 2 sm57's as per MikeP's suggestion.

 

[Mike P]

The one the only Duncan JB! Thanks for the compliment on the tone.. I guess we all hear things differently. The true test would be for how this sits in a mix. I might try that next but will blend 2 sm57's as per MikeP's suggestion.

I think the recording sounds fine in terms of mids and overall balance. It's just "small" sounding and would likely need to be hard panned once bass and drums are added (much like the early Van Halen recordings).

I think the reverb and delay are fine as well.

 

[alowerdeep]

So MikeP..when you post your mts clips are those actually of the amp miked up or are those directly recorded?Im curious becasue you talk of a properly treated room..also,I have read that alot of the modern recordings do no teven use "live" drums anymore....mostly sampled drums....we even did that on our last disc.....we triggered the kit so our drummer could play and replaced with samples...well,the guy that mixed/produced did anyway and it turned out pretty good....just curious of your methodology......

 

[Mike P]

So MikeP..when you post your mts clips are those actually of the amp miked up or are those directly recorded?Im curious becasue you talk of a properly treated room..also,I have read that alot of the modern recordings do no teven use "live" drums anymore....mostly sampled drums....we even did that on our last disc.....we triggered the kit so our drummer could play and replaced with samples...well,the guy that mixed/produced did anyway and it turned out pretty good....just curious of your methodology......

Recorded live. The signal chain and pics can be found in the SG Mk22, Stonerverb and Fisch thread. Maybe I'll post as a thread the mods can sticky?

 

[alowerdeep]

Ok..I was just curious...I assumed as much by the commentary,but I know alot of guy like the mts gear becasue of that capability......so you are "old school" with everything?or do you also use the sampled drums on recordings?

 

[Mike P]

Ok..I was just curious...I assumed as much by the commentary,but I know alot of guy like the mts gear becasue of that capability......so you are "old school" with everything?or do you also use the sampled drums on recordings?

I'm "old school" as much as possible. I cut all of my tracks from start to finish on both guitar and bass guitar (keyboards as well, when applicable). I don't have a drum booth or a live room per se in my current home, so all of my drum tracks, regardless of genre, are programmed by hand with the mouse.

Someday, I'll have a nice big tracking room...

 

[Kapo_Polenton]

MikeP,

I think it is because I actually drum that I find it easier (and also a pride thing) to be able to record my own drums. That said, I also was never a big fan of the samples click by click.... the dynamics on the snare just always blew to me. Rudiments and accents.... that said, the quality of programs has gotten a lot better. I know what you said about the Slate stuff but I think using anything really, (BFD, toontrack) in conjunction with triggering of some type (mics in my case) can take you a long way in not even having to worry about the room. Ideally yes I will learn to record drums the proper way too but one thing at a time. I personally found that samples and patterns in drum programs affected the tempo and swing tempo of my writing. I felt constrained... when it is me on drums, I can completely control where and how I want the song to go. I do definitely think you should sticky some of your links and ideas though. Like i said, if i could get anything remotely close to a 1984 sound or AFD sound at home, I'd almost think i had happened across a goose that $hits golden eggs and be beyond happy. Your knowledge could really be helpful here. I've already started playing with the positioning of my mics and found things that work way better and i am not even isolating anything or treating the immediate surroundings to the cab just yet.

 

[Mike P]

MikeP,

I think it is because I actually drum that I find it easier (and also a pride thing) to be able to record my own drums. That said, I also was never a big fan of the samples click by click.... the dynamics on the snare just always blew to me. Rudiments and accents....

That was true in the 80's and up until around 2000 but in the past decade, the sample libraries have become so extensive, with 100 velocity layers per drum or more, that if your drums sound "machine gun" like, it's on the programmer.

It's possible to do anything with these sample libraries these days. Anything. And you're hearing them on 99% of all the major label releases because the mixers don't have time to fool around with drums that don't fit their mixes.

that said, the quality of programs has gotten a lot better. I know what you said about the Slate stuff but I think using anything really, (BFD, toontrack) in conjunction with triggering of some type (mics in my case) can take you a long way in not even having to worry about the room.

Well, I completely disagree with your take on mic'ing cymbals and using samples but that's something you'll need to figure out on your own. When sample libraries have been recorded at the finest studios in the world using extensive mic lockers, preamps, compressors, RADAR, etc. and engineered by experienced engineers, there's no way your cymbals mic'd with 57's through a Presonus are going to sound better, let alone, stand up in your tracks.

But like I said, you'll find out on your own.

Ideally yes I will learn to record drums the proper way too but one thing at a time. I personally found that samples and patterns in drum programs affected the tempo and swing tempo of my writing. I felt constrained... when it is me on drums, I can completely control where and how I want the song to go.

Then learn how to program. Learn the nuances of each drum in each library. Learn what hits work and what hits don't work. Experiment.

I've created more than 15 kits that I use on a monthly basis. I don't have time to mess around when I'm on a 2 hour deadline for tracks. Most of the tracks I've posted in this forum were composed, recorded and mixed in less than an hour.

If I had to endure what you're describing, I'd have to find a new line of work.

I do definitely think you should sticky some of your links and ideas though. Like i said, if i could get anything remotely close to a 1984 sound or AFD sound at home, I'd almost think i had happened across a goose that $hits golden eggs and be beyond happy. Your knowledge could really be helpful here. I've already started playing with the positioning of my mics and found things that work way better and i am not even isolating anything or treating the immediate surroundings to the cab just yet.

We'll need to check with the Mods. This site is really about the Randall MTS series, not a recording workshop and I definitely don't want to cross any boundaries.

 

[Kapo_Polenton]

Just between you and me, I'll probably end up using sampled crashed but my hats will be all me baby!! :twisted: