Grail vs. 1086

[6stringgrind]

Does anybody have both the Grail and the 1086? How do they differ, tone-wise? Are they at all alike? Which do you prefer?

 

[distortoman]

6Stringgrind,
I have both the Grail module and the 1086. Both modules are great for high gain applications. However, the Grail is my favorite module by far, as it fits my style of music (alternative metal) very well. Heavy rhythm crunch as well as soloing tones with the Grail are very good. The lead tone of the Grail is also very musical and thick, much more so than my 1086. I have to run the bass level on the 1086 much higher than I have to on the Grail to get a comparable thickness for both. To me, the 1086 has a good overall distorted tone, but I have found that the Grail is better overall for cutting though in a band mix. The 1086 reminds me more of a modded Marshall crunch, whereas the Grail is very much reminiscent of the red channel of the old 2-channel Dual Rectifier. I found the 1086 to be better for more classic metal and rock sounds, whereas the Grail is better for modern metal and alternative metal (Seether, Breaking Benjamin, etc.) Overall, I find the Grail has more clarity, low end tightness and and midrange bite than the 1086. I would say between these two modules, if you like a thick, articulate crunchy heavy sound, the Grail is better. Hope this helps.

- Distortoman

 

[6stringgrind]

Thanks for the very detailed answer, distortoman.

Any other opinions still welcome and appreciated.

 

[Lonerock]

I'm lookin forward to get my Grail module I should get in mailbox this week ! ! !

 

[goldwing68nv]

i've owned both modules and distortoman's above description is pretty accurate.as far as "rectified" tone goes,the GRAIL is,by far,Randall's best module.tightness,clarity & a thick mesa-ish grind are it's attributes...for the record,the 1086 module is based off the SL+ circuit board.

 

[METALjim]

Does the 1086 not have more gain? I'm also looking at these 2 modules but i'm in a metal band like arch enemy/the haunted kinda thing. Are the solo tones on these better than the XTC?

 

[goldwing68nv]

the XTC,flat out,beats the 1086 for "solo" tones.the 1086 does have more gain than the GRAIL,though.for stuff like Arch Enemy,you'd do much better,gain-wise,with an ULTRA or ULTRA XL,imo...

 

[6stringgrind]

for the record,the 1086 module is based off the SL+ circuit board.

I have a Dave Friedman-modified SL+. Would I be wasting my time getting a 1086? Are they basically the same sound?

 

[goldwing68nv]

well,i have a Dave F. "modded" SL+,also,and it blows the doors off the 1086,as far as Marshall tone goes.the 1086 may have a bit more gain on tap,but it's just a bit,and it does not possess the quality of tone that the modded SL+ has.the 1086 has the most flexibility,that's for sure.but if you've already got a modded SL+,then the 1086 would be somewhat redundant.plus,imo,the 1086,with the "mids-voicing" switch set to the right(rectified-tone)seems dark & muddy.sorta has that blanket-over-a-speaker sound.you're better off getting something like a GRAIL or a Pete-modded RECTO module,if you're searching for a different tone to go along with your modded SL+...otherwise,maybe check out the new KH3,once it's out!!!

 

[6stringgrind]

Thanks for the info, goldwing! Much appreciated!

 

[maximus1]

get an ultra xl, its very close to the vht, 5150 , and probably closest to the krankenstein. it has excellent gain , killer grind , and super saturation. you may not like the regular ultra as i think most people don't. its super mid scooped and stingy. it can be modded by changing the r31 resistor in favor of more mids which makes it sound identical to a 5150 but with the option to dial out mids where as a 5150 is super mid heavy from the get. anyway the ultra xl is arguably the best module for high gain with an identity all its own. i use to love the 1086 and think there was no module better until i got the ultra xl. in comparison after using the xl i feel that the 1086 is weak on gain big time, my recto probably has more :wink:

 

[goldwing68nv]

+1 on what maximus1 just mentioned...for "super" high gain,with a good dose of mids/upper mids,the ULTRA XL is the way to go! if you want more of a scooped darker sound w/some low mids,but just as much crushing gain,get a regular ULTRA!!!

 

[6stringgrind]

Great. More options. Oh, to be rich. :lol:

 

[METALjim]

get an ultra xl, its very close to the vht, 5150 , and probably closest to the krankenstein. it has excellent gain , killer grind , and super saturation. you may not like the regular ultra as i think most people don't. its super mid scooped and stingy. it can be modded by changing the r31 resistor in favor of more mids which makes it sound identical to a 5150 but with the option to dial out mids where as a 5150 is super mid heavy from the get. anyway the ultra xl is arguably the best module for high gain with an identity all its own. i use to love the 1086 and think there was no module better until i got the ultra xl. in comparison after using the xl i feel that the 1086 is weak on gain big time, my recto probably has more :wink:

You mentioned the R31 change on the ULTRA module. Is it possible do you think to change an Ultra to an Ultra XL? Because as far as i can see on the PCB layout there are only 4 differences. The R31 change, then the C3 change to a .0015, C14 to a 250pf, and the treble pot to a 250k instead of 500k. Is that possible as it seems a waste of money having both if the XL is far better and i already have an Ultra which is...ok.
Thanks for the help.