How do you eq your signal when using speaker sims?

[wakeguitar]

Hey, I'm looking for tips to improve my guitar recording process using speaker EMU's.. Currently I'm doing the speaker EMU thing, so I'm only focusing on that for the moment, so that means any dynamics, EQ or other 'rack' gear to utilize I will consider it (GAS).

How do you eq or process your signal when recording like this? Since I'm just recording the preamp, I can also send the signal back out to the cabinet if I want to record the cabinet, but I don't see how that would really change the recording process too much.

I've tried some parallel compression and it might be ok for some things, maybe cleans, but I generally didn't think compression would really improve things for me especially with gains.

cheers

 

[GtrGeorge!]

I am never satisfied,...Ive tried many things but..maybe its me.
I cant ver get a sound the way I want. And yet I hear Matt figs tone and its awesome!!
..not sure what to recommend.

GtrGeorge

 

[ricky]

I am not sure if this will help, but I use speaker sims most of the time any more on studio stuff. I run through a Digitech GSP1101 and then 4CM with an RM4. I The Digitech has speaker sims and some of them are OK. I bought some redwirez and they work great.
You can go to Rob's JF site and I have a couple of tunes on there using his OD special. I used speaker sims for all of the guitars and the bass. The tunes may not be what you expect from an MTS guy as one is a traditional jazz kind of thing and the other is a bluesy one and neither uses any high gain tones. I figure if I can get clean tones with speaker sims, the gainier tones will really kick ***. The solo a third of the way through on threadbare is probably the best example of a nice speaker sim tone.

 

[Jaded Faith]

I break the process into several steps for the best results:

1: Record the guitar DI signal into the DAW and use the DI amp out to feed an amp for monitoring while tracking. The signal in is only DI guitar with nothing done to it.

2: Run the DI guitar out an into a Reamp box that feeds the amp I plan to record.

3: Run the amp into an attenuator that provides a line out and speaker out (a Hot Plate works and I'll be selling one I built soon) in the same box. Run the attenuated out back to the DAW and record it and the speaker out to a speaker. Use the amp/speaker combo to set the tone on the amp.

4: The attenuated signal you recorded back into the DAW is what you apply your impulses to.

Hopefully this makes sense. Just FYI, the results are fantastic and the only EQ done is at the amp before it's recorded back into the DAW. I use good stand alone pre's (nothing but the gain and level on them though), DI's and Reamp boxes and the results are great.

As for impulses, I have used ReKabinet, Torpedo and Ownhammer. Ownhammer's stuff is the best by far.

Hope that helps,
Rob

 

[wakeguitar]

Thanks for the insights into your recording chains.

For myself, I just can't get into using a DI/REAMP to record with. I'm the kind of guy that frets about what kind of cable I'm using and never want to use excess pedals if not necessary. So, for me running my signal through 2 transformers, a DA stage, a AD stage and about 4 extra cables is just too much for me to handle.

SO, for the time being I'm into the sound of guitar->amp(mts)->fx out->daw. IF there is a way to improve that like eq or fx then I'm going to be happy to explore that.

Currently I also am using Ownhammer, it's excellent. Nebula is such a great plugin.

As for running the power amp out, I haven't found a solution that has worked for me. I seem to agree with some others that also think this way, that poweramp out simply compresses the signal to much to sound dynamic enough that way - but I'm still searching for new products that might do this well (ill send Rob a email soon about HIS product, sounds interesting).

cheers yall

 

[wakeguitar]

i have this belief that I think every guitarist has to have a 'secret sauce' eq somewhere in the chain, and that it probably lies in a personal eq flavor. Just trying to pick you guy's heads for more ideas.

 

[Jaded Faith]

It sounds like you have a couple preconceptions that are hanging you up a little.

I think the thing to keep in mind about any process is the results can vary widely based on approach, technique and comparing results. Running through any excess cables, conversions or whatever isn't relevant if the results are fantastic. One might argue is there any difference between that or running through a "secret EQ"? It's still more gear in the line. As long as the gear is of a good quality it tends to do more good than harm.

I will say since I went to this approach, I have yet to once apply any EQ to a single guitar track. Honest to god as crazy as it sounds. It streamlined my workflow like no other change in approach I have ever made. Because I dial everything in later, I can always make sure I use the amp, speakers and settings that best allow the guitar to sit perfectly with the track. I am not married to a single decision except the guitar used until I do the reamping. That flexibility made getting fantastic mixes much easier than ever.

Remember this is one fellows experience. Because it's so unique and a change from my more traditional (and painful) approach, I wanted to share. It gave me hours of my life back and things sound better than ever. If it doesn't work for you, it's entirely a moot issue!

Have a great weekend,
Rob

 

[wakeguitar]

Cool, I think I'm just really try to explore different things. It could be something that I have to try something even if it is worse (or not), otherwise I would just never know the difference. I'm sure it took you years to develop your ears so that you can fine tune making amps (which is kind of mind boggelling to me .

But as to gear and cables, I usually know right away if I like the sound I'm getting or not, and MTS and mod modules make my life easy in that regard. I'm happy to be able to just get a great tone no matter what - one that I like the sound of. When problems arise is what layering and stacking, or mixing takes place, or plain just using tones that I'm not familiar enough with.

One of the pluses with trying to avoid the DI route, for me, is I find it a better method to simply cut a track with the tone AT THAT TIME, which can be a fantastic thing IMO. Sometimes too many options is a bad thing, but OFC it all comes down the the player and artists, naturally.

 

[Jaded Faith]

Very cool. FWIW, when I do need to grab for an EQ the 1073-style voicing is a favorite. I use UA plug-ins for the most part and their Neve stuff is excellent.

In hardware, my Vintech 73i has a great EQ with character. If I want to get clinical, nearly sterile EQ I use my SSL Alpha Channel (good for things like acoustic guitars, keys and anything in a pop/rock genre). The EQ's in my UA LA-610 have limited control but are very musical and useful. I just picked up an Aphex unit from Jace here but have yet to use it. Almost forgot, the EQ's in my Allen & Heath mixer are actually excellent and I use them on drums often with great results.

Hope that helps!

 

[mrtatemyballs]

I've been using recabinet for a while, and it is just so much easier than micing for recording at home. I haven't checked out ownhammer yet thanks for the heads up on that.

I will run the "line out" of my weber mass attenuator to capture the power amp sound, and then record on a different track the preamp out. The power amp track sounds a bit bigger and darker, where the preamp track sounds thinner and clearer. They are out of phase so I flip the phase and combine the 2 tracks usually with the preamp track a bit louder. My favorite mic combo is a royer 121 and senn 409.

I'm pretty happy with it, honestly. I have also found the IR's can be a bit dark, so when I record I use less bass, and more treble on my amp.

 

[Nightdare]

I used a few Cab-emulators (the only dedicated one a H&K Red box)
Emus are usually boomy in the bottom, fizzy in the top
and all get turned to crud by the sound from my 2x12 V30s

I am prepared to go impulses in the near future, but for now, I'm looking at building my own isolation box to house the 2x12 in
(got to be a pretty big box, roughly 40"x40"x30", If I had a 1x12, I could downsize, but I'll work with what I got )

Including mike, cable and stand, I don't think it's gonna cost me much more than $250

 

[Jaded Faith]

I actually own Recabinet, the full version of Torpedo and Ownhammer. I think Recabinet is the worst of the bunch, flat and dark. Probably the least realistic. But it has its place.

Torpedo is next best and a big step up. Ownhammer is tough to beat even with miking a speaker in my studio.

 

[mrtatemyballs]

Rob, is there a big difference in the ownhammer samples that are used in the nebula interface VS the ones used in a standard IR loader? I'd like to try the ownhammer stuff, but just wondering if the nebula stuff is worth the price of admission.

Always looking to get a better sound.

 

[Jaded Faith]

Rob, is there a big difference in the ownhammer samples that are used in the nebula interface VS the ones used in a standard IR loader? I'd like to try the ownhammer stuff, but just wondering if the nebula stuff is worth the price of admission.

Always looking to get a better sound.

Ironically, Nebula is my only IR loader! :lol:

Kevin at Ownhammer was essential to helping me get into IR's. Recabinet and Torpedo use their own interfaces, so I never had to have any other dedicated loaded other than Nebula. I bought the second from the most expensive version and have never once regretted it. There is nothing else I have ever heard that sounds as good as that engine. In addition to running my Ownhammer impulses, the libraries of effects you can run on it (free on the Nebula site) are worth the price of admission alone. Not a single regret about my Nebula purchase.

 

[mrtatemyballs]

Thanks I'll be looking into it.