my delay really sounds bad through my rm 50 combo

[djkal]

I use it in front it sounds bad,, my isp decimator and danelectro transparent overdrive ver 2 does the job but my mxr carbon copy analog delay sounds horrible im going to sell the delay i even have the boss dd3 i think my amp doesnt like delay or im doing something wrong? i turned the effects knob off and on but it doesnt do anything it s for the reverb tank, i tried in the loop too ,, i wish i could try the line 6 m13,, im using mostly my amp dry with my sl+ and blackface wich sounds goods, i have a plexi module that i bought to get it mod any suggestion on which mod should i get for?

 

[Vince]

Time based effects should go through the loop. I use a carbon Copy and it sounds fantastic through my RM50 Head.

 

[djkal]

i would have to give it another try,,,, is there a 12ax7 that is use for the loop
only? maybe i should try to change it,

 

[Julia]

Both effects loops are +4 dbu. Pedals and some multieffects units can only take -10 dbu. Some companies design effects loops with a button for you to select. Lower priced or old school design their effects loops for -10 dbu.

This is the one thing I don't like about the amp. It forces you to go rack mount unless you use something that has a -15 db Pad in it like a Radial Pro DI box before your effects.

Most MFX units allow you to preset the mix of the effect with the dry signal. I do this with mine. Since I've controlled the blend through the multieffects unit I use only the serial loop on the amp.

The parallel loop allows you to set your effects 100% wet and then mix them in with the dry signal. Unfortunately this can cause phasing problems with time based effects. But with other effects it'll work fine.

Time based effects like delays and stuff like that should go into the serial loop.

If you make the jump to rackmount I'd highly recommend the Digitech GSP1101 w/ Control 2 footswitch. YOu can find it for $670 as a package deal. This unit also gives you a backup at gigs via the XLR outputs to go to the mixer in case your amp ever crapped out at a gig. The effects on it are excellent. You can also run it as a modeler and use your power section of your amp -- make sure you globally turn off the cabinet models if you do this. It uses one rack slot.

 

[djkal]

thanks Julia you are right as soon as i hook up cables in the effects loops i lost db i really dont like that and im not going to invest into it more with the blackface module i can put chorus and delay in front but otherwise it s all going to be dry amp only with sl+ ,,, when im tired of it i just might sell it but i really like the bottom sound that it gives me,

 

[Rising Farce]

I have precisely the same problem with my Carbon Copy.

Now, I'm no sound engineer, but is it unreasonable to expect a delay pedal to function properly when run directly into the front of the amp? After all, isn't it designed to be used that way?

 

[VitaminG]

a delay pedal will sound fine in front of a clean amp. But not so good when the delay is before whatever is generating your drive tone, no matter whether that is a pedal or preamp. If you get all your overdrive/distortion from a stomp box then you can run the delay in front of the amp, as long as it is after the dirtbox. Applying delay to a distorted tone almost always sounds better than applying distortion to a delayed sound. The former gives you repeats of your guitar/amp tone, the latter tends to turn to mush.

I'm planning to try Julia's idea of running a DI with a -20db pad in the loop to see if I can use my delays & such in the loop. At the moment, I have to use one of the modules in the RM100 as a lead channel because I can't use an EQ or clean boost pedal to boost for lead like I used to in the old Marshall loop. Trying to run any pedals (apart from my Boss CE-20 which has the option to run at line level) in the loop results in a volume drop and undesirable clipping, even on the clean channels. Only other option is to run the individual volumes on the modules so low that clipping doesn't occur and turn the master volume up, but then I feel that I'm sacrificing tone, particularly on the Blackface.

 

[GtrGeorge!]

I just reread the manual for the RM50 on loops..
and WHAT WE'RE THEY THINKING???
It seems nice in theory..but what multiFx units was this designed to use??? Any examples???
Seems to me..they missed the mark greatly.
Can our mod-guys remedy this? Like put a switch on the unit?
GtrGeorge

 

[Julia]

I just reread the manual for the RM50 on loops..
and WHAT WE'RE THEY THINKING???
It seems nice in theory..but what multiFx units was this designed to use??? Any examples???
Seems to me..they missed the mark greatly.
Can our mod-guys remedy this? Like put a switch on the unit?
GtrGeorge

* TC Electronics G-major 2, G-force
* POD X3 Pro
* Eventide Effects
* GSP1101
* Lexicon
* dbx
* Rocktron Prophesy
* Tech 21 PSA

Even with these you have to watch the level of the output from your modules so you don't clip the units.

Mod wise? It would be cheaper to drop $99 on the Radial Pro DI

or $159 on the Radial JDI because both have a ground lift, -15 db Pad, and the JDI has a direct out for going straight from your guitar into the board or interface for reamping. Couple the JDI with the X-Amp and you've got a reamping kit.

Basically you can do it this way and the user has the impression of "tone suck" in the loop. You give the switching option, which does the same thing. Or you just keep it instrument level and even bypassed feed instrument level to the power section to hide it (like Fender and Peavey do for example).

Actually it's not tone suck -- it's really volume suck. You just have to turn up the master louder.

 

[djkal]

Actually it's not tone suck -- it's really volume suck. You just have to turn up the master louder

that s correct but when you switch channel from solo (delay in the loop) back to rythm it gets too loud

 

[yigba]

My pedals work fine now in the serial loop.

I just use a pot (one of those master volume pots that came with a Hot Rod Deluxe I bought a few years ago). I dial the pot to around 7 and the pedals work fine. If I dial the pot higher than 7 I start to hear that overloaded distortion sound. You can manipulate the module Master volumes also to keep the loop from overloading - if I turn down the modules I turn up the pot and vice versa.

I put an LPB-1 at the end of the effects chain if I want a boost on it.

As Julia said, just dial up the Master on the amp to get the volume to where you want it.

 

[GtrGeorge!]

Yeah I hear you..both...
but I insist its not a very loop system when you consider the volume drop and the remedies we have to use to get past it. Therefore it seems they didnt develop the loops assmartly as they could have.
A simple switch with a -15db pad....and/or a trim pot probably wouldnt have cost all that much to do.

Julia..you didnt list the Gmajor...you only listed the Gmajor 2 as compatible...why? Is it because the G major doesnt interface well with the loop?..whereas the Gmaj2 DOES??

 

[Zander]

Yeah I hear you..both...
but I insist its not a very loop system when you consider the volume drop and the remedies we have to use to get past it.

Yeah, I think you ought to be able to put foot pedals through the FX Loop too. I wonder how much more $$ the RM100 would have cost if it came with a signal level/line level FX switch on it...

 

[VitaminG]

it's not a bad loop by any call. Many amps have loops that only take line-level gear. The loops on the RM100 don't seem to overly colour the signal, which is good. It has played just fine with the bit of rack gear I've tried, through both the serial and parallel loops.

There are some very fine amps that have much worse loops. I have heard that the loops on the Soldano SLO100 and Bogner Uberschall are just terrible. Great amps, crappy loops.

it is a shame that Randall didn't build a level switch into the loops - even my JCM900 had a trimpot to adjust the level - but not having one doesn't make it a bad loop.

 

[Julia]

I didn't list the G-major because it is no longer in production. It was replaced by the G-major 2.

Cost of the amp for including a pad button? about $0.50 more. Note that Framus also uses the same type of loop. It seems to be a trend again to go rack.

 

[yigba]

My feeble brain simply has waaaay too many options with rack gear. Tried em all back in the 80's and just didn't have the time and/or patience to tweak away.

When I want reverb, chorus, delay, etc. I want one or two simple knobs to turn. I don't want or care for 10 different options for each effect. It simply drove me nuts trying to figure out what each of them did.

So I'm strictly a simple pedal guy, and I'm happy to say with th ehelp of this board i found a way to use my pedals with this amp.

 

[Julia]

Rack gear has changed a lot. It sounds better. And it's easier to tweak. If I can do it anyone can, believe me. You can adjust the settings from your PC while you audition the setting through your amp. You never have to touch a knob on the thing. You save "library sets" on your PC and just load them up via USB. You're done.

 

[JKD]

My feeble brain simply has waaaay too many options with rack gear. Tried em all back in the 80's and just didn't have the time and/or patience to tweak away.

When I want reverb, chorus, delay, etc. I want one or two simple knobs to turn. I don't want or care for 10 different options for each effect. It simply drove me nuts trying to figure out what each of them did.

So I'm strictly a simple pedal guy, and I'm happy to say with th ehelp of this board i found a way to use my pedals with this amp.

SOunds like you need something like the G#...has two FX channels..one for reverb and one for other effects (Chorus, Delay etc.) .. can be had used for about the price of a good pedal ($90-$100) and has knobs on the front for parameters...most importantly it's line level and supports kill-dry....course you need two if you want chorus and delay...LOL..but still, nice unit, shame it's discontinued.

http://www.tcelectronic.com/g-sharp.asp

 

[yigba]

I actually bought the G Major and hated it.

To my ears it didn't sound good at all - my pedals killed it for warmth. Reading through the manual with all the tweaks involved it reminded me why I hated rack effects 20 years ago.

Happy and dumb and staying with pedals.

 

[Mike361]

I use a boss dd-20 through the serial loop and it sounds great. First you must switch the dd-20's output. Very easy to do.