PISSED

[riff man]

I'm am a sound engineer here in Southern ILL.
The whole mix sounds real thin. :roll:
Sound lesson #125. You can not fix just the guitar tone when you are mastering.

I have no doubt that the original tone was good...It's Randall!
The recording guy screwed up getting it to tape or hard drive, if it sounded thin during the first play back, it was recorded that way!! that's the bad news... good news , next time you will know better.

Unfortunately I see or hear this a lot, Protools can not fix every thing...

BTW can you shoot the recording guy so he dose not do that to anyone else?
:twisted:

The sound guy at the studio my band is working with, wants us at "reasonable volumes". Even though we love the cracked tone. What's your opinion there?

Reasonable volume is ok when ghost tracking for a drum track ...but the Guitars MUST be cranked the move the air in front of that mic!! get that speaker moving !!! imho

 

[dragonguitarist]

I'm am a sound engineer here in Southern ILL.
The whole mix sounds real thin. :roll:
Sound lesson #125. You can not fix just the guitar tone when you are mastering.

I have no doubt that the original tone was good...It's Randall!
The recording guy screwed up getting it to tape or hard drive, if it sounded thin during the first play back, it was recorded that way!! that's the bad news... good news , next time you will know better.

Unfortunately I see or hear this a lot, Protools can not fix every thing...

BTW can you shoot the recording guy so he dose not do that to anyone else?
:twisted:

The sound guy at the studio my band is working with, wants us at "reasonable volumes". Even though we love the cracked tone. What's your opinion there?

Reasonable volume is ok when ghost tracking for a drum track ...but the Guitars MUST be cranked the move the air in front of that mic!! get that speaker moving !!! imho

THAT'S what I wanted to know! We practice there also, and sometimes we record the practices and he wants us to be so low that the drums dominte everything, but obviously we are mixed in. And I haven't heard a GOOD recording this way yet. But the drummer is STILL working on finishing up(only been drumming a year, so expected). But I wanted to know for when the guitars went in! Thanks!

 

[crankyrayhanky]

mts delivers pretty good quality at low volumes if you need it, especially when adding a boost...but cranking the volume is always better and makes pedals unnecessary.

I've gotten good results this way, and I never thought it would sound good but I imagine this is how Grohl does it:
track main guitar(s), bass, scratch vocals to a click
Track drums
go back and replace/add to original tracks as needed

It comes out supertight this way, but there is merit into doing it live and just dealing with the bleed

 

[dragonguitarist]

mts delivers pretty good quality at low volumes if you need it, especially when adding a boost...but cranking the volume is always better and makes pedals unnecessary.

I've gotten good results this way, and I never thought it would sound good but I imagine this is how Grohl does it:
track main guitar(s), bass, scratch vocals to a click
Track drums
go back and replace/add to original tracks as needed

It comes out supertight this way, but there is merit into doing it live and just dealing with the bleed

I have used pedals before, but prefere not using them. Less hasle. Especially when you CAN sound killer without them. Even SS amps in my opinion sound better turned up, because that's what they are designed for, especially the new generation of SS.

 

[JKD]

...and if you're not careful. although the pedal can sound great in the room..the added gain can actually thin out the tone.

 

[maximus1]

i agree with jkd on that , i thought thats what was going on cause my other guitarist recorded with a 5150 and a tube screamer and it sounded very similar to what you ended up with , plus imo the ultra is very 5150 ish. a pedal always soundes like a pedal. when recording a tube amp it should be cranked and in my experiences the sennheiser e609 i beleive its called( not sure ) is better than the 57. the 57 is great but placement is hard to find. also a good condenser out a few feet and up in the air where your ears usually are when you're dialing in tone is good to have plugged in cause you can blend mics or even use it as a reference , if that makes any sense. i beleive i told the last engineer i worked with and i quote " if i wanted it to sound like a metalzone i'd a ****** brought one":evil: . i think maybe you're dude is going to heavy on the mic pre amp

 

[tonymustang302]

oh well.....it's all a learning process......

 

[Smokey]

oh well.....it's all a learning process......

Aboslutely, write it down to experience, but sometimes it can all be good. I laid down two guitar tracks at home, panned the Erect to 50% left and SL++ to 50% right. But I had placed the mic too close to the centre of the speaker and the sound was too trebly, harsh and buzzy.
I re-recorded the tracks a week later with the mic position halfway between the cone and edge of the speaker. Panned again Erect 50% left and SL++ 50% right. Much better, but I had lost some of the clarity, I had gone too far the other way and did not have enough presence.
Solution, I brought up my old tracks, and set them very low in the mix and hard panned to the opposite side.
Eg Main track: Erect 50% left, old Erect 100% right.
Main track: SL++ 50% right, old SL++ 100% left
The guitars now sound so much fuller and better. I remember years ago reading an article on Dimebag recording Far Beyond Driven, and he was saying how the 3 cabs they had miked, individually they sounded awful, but together they sounded great. You could probably go back and re-do guitars with a more muddy / fuller sound, and combine the two parts. Cheers

 

[LRStrat]

The sound guy at the studio my band is working with, wants us at "reasonable volumes". Even though we love the cracked tone. What's your opinion there?

The issue there is that guitar tones especially tube tones HAVE to be recorded at a certain volume!! It's the whole tube get their sound when they are working ( at a certain level), plus your speakers are Celestions that also need a certain level to preform. Like others have said , The cabinet could have been miked differently and that could reek havoc on tone. Does the studio have an iso booth you could put the cabinet in and turn it up!?!
And I would defiantly double track all rhythm guitar parts, it will thicken things up. I use an Audix i5 for guitars for live shows and I love it better than a 57. Hang in there.

 

[dragonguitarist]

The sound guy at the studio my band is working with, wants us at "reasonable volumes". Even though we love the cracked tone. What's your opinion there?

The issue there is that guitar tones especially tube tones HAVE to be recorded at a certain volume!! It's the whole tube get their sound when they are working ( at a certain level), plus your speakers are Celestions that also need a certain level to preform. Like others have said , The cabinet could have been miked differently and that could reek havoc on tone. Does the studio have an iso booth you could put the cabinet in and turn it up!?!
And I would defiantly double track all rhythm guitar parts, it will thicken things up. I use an Audix i5 for guitars for live shows and I love it better than a 57. Hang in there.

Yeah there is a vocal both I could throw it in and use a wireless system. That should work. I was messing around with recording my amp the other day. I did XLR, low vol mic, and about 9 o'clock. And the 9 o'clock area was alot better than both the others, and I'm sure if I could turn it up without cops knocking on my door, it could have got better!

 

[crankyrayhanky]

Yeah there is a vocal both I could throw it in and use a wireless system.

Don't do it! Wireless may sound good live but in the studio that's crazy talk....I know we're problem solving here but you must find another solution

How about a running just 2 (or 1) of your speakers in a 4x12- less volume, especially if you're only close micing 1 speaker anyway

 

[Smokey]

Yeah there is a vocal both I could throw it in and use a wireless system.

Don't do it! Wireless may sound good live but in the studio that's crazy talk....I know we're problem solving here but you must find another solution

How about a running just 2 (or 1) of your speakers in a 4x12- less volume, especially if you're only close micing 1 speaker anyway

I've made up a 25m speaker lead, so i can run my cab at the other end of the house and have the RM100 with me in my study to tweak while I record. This works for me. Might be worth a go.
But in regard to wireless, if you used a X2 digital wireless system, there would be absolutely no tone loss at all. These units are getting great reviews. Normal UHF wirelesses are a different conversation. In that respect I agree with Cranky.
Cheers

 

[dragonguitarist]

Yeah there is a vocal both I could throw it in and use a wireless system.

Don't do it! Wireless may sound good live but in the studio that's crazy talk....I know we're problem solving here but you must find another solution

How about a running just 2 (or 1) of your speakers in a 4x12- less volume, especially if you're only close micing 1 speaker anyway

I've made up a 25m speaker lead, so i can run my cab at the other end of the house and have the RM100 with me in my study to tweak while I record. This works for me. Might be worth a go.
But in regard to wireless, if you used a X2 digital wireless system, there would be absolutely no tone loss at all. These units are getting great reviews. Normal UHF wirelesses are a different conversation. In that respect I agree with Cranky.
Cheers

Thats the one I would use, the other guitarist has one of them.