Preamp S.A.G. tubes.

[Deisel401]

Was browsing through all the tube offerings on Musicians Friend website and am wondering if anyone has tried the set of 3 Groove Tubes they are calling S.A.G. MHG ? Looks like 2 normal ax7's and and a "matching" P.I. Now that I recently changed all my preamp tubes to E.H. and am very happy with my tone (SL+ stock), am really wanting to get into trying every tube I can. But I'm also smart enough to listen to the experienced voices on this forum. Hope everyone is having a groovy day.

 

[Mattfig]

Interesting way to package up three tubes...If you're happy with the EH's that's all ya need...You can get many opinions on here about tubes- all the way from corksniffers like me who like higher end tubes such as Gold Lions all the way to members who prefer more inexpensive tubes...It's all what you wanna do and what you like in tone...

I won't say that the tubes I choose to use are better but they are different to my ear in a more pleasing way- others will say they hear little difference to account for the higher price...I'm sure you know that most tubes are made in one of a few places and then rebranded by many companies who claim to have rigorous testing and higher standards...Not always true...Sometimes fully true...

My suggestion would be to find a tube dealer you trust...I like tube depot and the tube store mainly...Buy a couple at a time and see what you can hear...The best rule of thumb to follow is that fresh tubes will almost always sound better than worn tubes (even if the fresh ones are inexpensive and the worn ones are prime brands)...

V1 on your amp is the most important preamp tube...As is your phase inverter (you will have many people tell you a 5751 is best there)...Then in your module there is also a set of tubes...V1 and V2 (which technically are V2 and V3 since V1 is in your amp)...Anyway V1 on your module is the one on the left if you are looking at the front of the module...That one will have the most to do with the tone of the module and V2 will basically impact the perceived gain and richness of said gain...I like a high gain tube in V2 of the module myself...

Good luck hunting...PM me if you want more info on some of the higher end tubes...Ebay is also a good source for NOS tubes...

Edited to add: Your power tubes will also impact your tone but not so significantly until you get to higher volume levels...

 

[JKMV12]

i wouldn't buy tubes from musician's friend (same goes for guitar center). Try one of these places:

http://tubedepot.com/
http://thetubestore.com/
http://www.dougstubes.com/
http://analogtubes.com/tubeshop/

I have had good experiences with various Ruby preamp and power tubes. Can't say much on JJ's other than i am not fond of their 6V6's. I have used the Penta 12AX7M that dougstubes sells and it is pretty good. I have had a Tungsol 12AX7 in my amp V1 for nearly two years and haven't found any reason to change it. But like Mattfig said just buy several different kinds and experiment. For hi gain you are generally going to want to stick with 12AX7 but if you have a clean module then maybe try some different tube types like 12AU7, 12AT7, or 5751. My advice is find a brand and type that you can rely one and stick with it.

Now concerning the options when buying tubes...maching (balanced on some sites) triodes only make sense for phase inverters because ideally they are supposed to be balanced. Keep in mind that your 12AX7 tube (and most others that you buy) are dual triodes which means you have essentially two tubes in one glass. Triodes are the building blocks of guitar preamps. Each triode in the preamp feeds the signal into the next one to be amplified again. When you get to the phase inverter the signal is split and each signal should be equal but opposite in phase. If the PI triodes are off then the signal sent to the power amp will be unbalanced. Though i don't think tolerances in triodes are that bad so you might not need to pay extra to have them find a matched tube. Its your choice.

Some places have matched preamp tubes which means they try to match two preamp tubes...which imo is not worth it for our application.

Low noise and microphonics is just them testing to make sure the tubes have the lowest possibly noise. Hi gain is an option where they test each tube and get you tube with the highest amplification factor. Matched gain is where they test and make sure the amplification factors of the triodes are matched. A good option if you want the most gain out of every tube but like i said before tolerances probably aren't that bad and performance likely varies over time.

They usually explain these options in good detail but if you have any questions feel free to ask.

For power tubes i suggest you try some Ruby 6550's at some point. I really liked them b/c they had a large, full tone. They just sound more powerful. Hard for me to describe but nonetheless i suggest trying them eventually.

Well i think that is enough information for now. Let me know if you have any questions.

Take Care,
John

 

[Mattfig]

Good info John....I think the OP said he had an RM22...If that's the case I'm pretty sure he's stuck with EL84s...

My advice there is:

Don't get Gold Lion EL84s as they cannot handle the high plate voltage and will blow...I know from experience...

I tried out several brands and stuck with the TubeStore Preferred Series EL84...50 bones for a matched set is high but not horrid for the bump up in quality....You will actually push EL84s a lot more than you would on most other amps with higher wattages using EL34s, 6550s, 6L6s, etc...So IMHO you don't wanna skimp there either for the RM22...You gotta have tubes that sound good at high volume...The stock JJs sounded dead to me but I did buy mine used so perhaps they were a bit worn although I don't think that was the case...

Anyway, more info....

 

[JKMV12]

Good info John....I think the OP said he had an RM22...If that's the case I'm pretty sure he's stuck with EL84s...

o ya...his sig says RM20. So EL84's it is then. No idea about those.

 

[hunter]

I tried out several brands and stuck with the TubeStore Preferred Series EL84...50 bones for a matched set is high but not horrid for the bump up in quality...

Got a pair of 6∏14∏ Sovtek EL84M branded and I like them. Like em better than the stock Rubys or EHs. I was told they are very sturdy and will last long, too.

 

[Deisel401]

Thanks for the replies. Definitely a few things in those posts I didn't know. The stock JJ's sounded dull to me. Not sure if that was because of the power tubes or the preamp tubes. I have a box of relatively new tubes hardly used. All matched sets of EL84's and various 12AX7's and AT7's. What has sounded best to me so far are the G.T. Gold Series EL84's , G.T. 12AT7 in the P.I. spot , same in the V3 spot on the SL+ module , and E.H. 12AX7's filling the rest of the preamp spots. Sounds really good to me. Definitely want to try some more expensive tubes when the opportunity arises. So , I guess noone has tried that 3 - pack of G.T. SAG preamp tubes I was asking about ?

 

[hunter]

Thanks for the replies. Definitely a few things in those posts I didn't know. The stock JJ's sounded dull to me. Not sure if that was because of the power tubes or the preamp tubes. I have a box of relatively new tubes hardly used. All matched sets of EL84's and various 12AX7's and AT7's. What has sounded best to me so far are the G.T. Gold Series EL84's , G.T. 12AT7 in the P.I. spot , same in the V3 spot on the SL+ module , and E.H. 12AX7's filling the rest of the preamp spots. Sounds really good to me. Definitely want to try some more expensive tubes when the opportunity arises. So , I guess noone has tried that 3 - pack of G.T. SAG preamp tubes I was asking about ?

These are kits offered for Marshall and Fender. I think SAG MHG is the Marshall Highgain, SAG FHG is the Fender Highgain. They have selected tubes for each spot, so I guess they shouldn't be too bad.

 

[Rising Farce]

[/quote]These are kits offered for Marshall and Fender. I think SAG MHG is the Marshall Highgain, SAG FHG is the Fender Highgain. They have selected tubes for each spot, so I guess they shouldn't be too bad.[/quote]

In reading the MF description, this appears to be accurate. While they're undoubtedly high-quality tubes, I suspect you'd be better served by contacting one of the previously listed tube specialists and asking for an application-specific recommendation. The GT package is intended to sound good in a variety of amps; you want tubes that sound great in yours.

 

[Mattfig]

Yeah, there are a few companies that will "package" tubes for a specific amp...For example, Eurotubes has numerous amps listed and will provide full working replacements for your current tubes...What they do not mention is that they're dumping a bunch of JJ tubes on you that you could have bought on your own for less...I know, I know....Some people love JJ tubes...I would personally rather work with a specialist who is willing to sell you tubes and help you decide on brands and I'll only say one more thing...

Someone mentioned D**g's tubes and I've used them before too...Service and tubes were just fine...But I was mislead by a sales person there about who makes what tubes and where....The guy basically said that his "brand x" tubes were the exact same as the Gold Lions I love and that I've been paying a ridiculous upcharge for cheap tubes...After some research, I found that to be incorrect...He went into great detail in his explanation and it was a load of *****...Just wanted to mention that because I called them back with the info I had and they hung up on me....Maybe he was just having a bad day or something... :?

Anyway, tubes are hard enough to understand...I thought it was not cool to provide misinformation in an attempt to sell his tubes...I've had great experiences with other dealers and BNB tubes on ebay is great too...Great prices and fast shipping...

 

[GtrGear]

I did sell the GT SAG tubes and did test and compare them myself
in modules from clean to distorted.

To my honest opinion it is soundwise better (and cheaper) to buy
the tubes you like. For instance Tung Sol as a 'budget' tube and TAD E83CC as a high end tube.

If you want to lowering the gain in your amp the Fender SAG is usefull.
But more in a way they are selected for lower gain, not for the sound.
If you can find a tube store that selects/brands I would ask for lower gain tubes of your favourite brand/type.