Question on Dual channel mods

[Skyze]

Hey, new here, think im gonna eventually get into this world of modules! I've been searching for the perfect amp for a long time now, using a Pod HD500 right now but I decided I want a more "real" tone. I play very different styles of music, so I can't get the tones i want with any one amp unfortunately. So this leads me to the modules!

My one main question though, to help me decide what to get as an amp base for the modules; Can the Egnater Dual-channel modules be modded?? Like I know Pete and Salvation mods do wonders with the Randall ones, and that is what gives me hope I'll be able to get the tones I want in the end..

instead of getting an M4 or RM4 and requiring an external poweramp, I rather have a full normal amp, such as the Egnater Mod's or RM50. I do want 4 "preamp channels" though, that is best case scenario, which is why im looking at Egnater's dual channels.

My idea, is if I got a Egnater Mod 50, which only has 2 module slots, but dual channels on each.. If I could have the tones I want modded on two modules, that would essentially give me 4 channels, correct?

The type of tones I want ideally - A clean fenderish twin, Then a boosted mid-gain funk/fusion clean.. For the 2nd module, a Mesa/ENGL type modern hi-gain rhythm, and a Soldano/XTC type lead channel.

If the Dual channel Egnater modules can be modded, can you do two completely separate tones on each one? Or do they have to be very similar tones, with the 2nd channel just being like a "boost" of the first channel?


Last question, and i know the answer is 99% no, but is there ANY chance to get a RM22 that can use dual channels? home-mods, or is Bruce taking them in yet to adapt egnater modules??

Any info is appreciated,
Nick

 

[AdInfinitum]

There are dual channel mods out there, but most are single channel modded stock Randalls.

Some of the modders can chime in about the dual channel Egnaters, but what I've found is the differences between the A/B channels is not just the B channel is boosted. I do tend to run A's gain at around Noon and B at 3, but I believe there is some differences in channel voicing as well. I do like running two Randall mods, say two Plexis with different setting so as to have a real two channel Plexi. I just wish the modded modules with switches were foot switchable - that would make them even more versatile.

BTW, once you start with MTS, you'll quickly want more mods and an RM4 to have them readily available. I'd start with an RM100 and then pick up an RM 4 and run it throughout the parallel FXloop. All you'd need is a good ABY footswitch (Radial hotshot).

 

[Jaded Faith]

I just modded a dual Erect last week and there is one shared tonestack. Any perceived tonal differences between channels A and B are due to the increased saturation and the effect that has on the tonestack behind it. There is always a perception of added thickness in the tone when you go back and forth between 2 channels with a gain difference.

 

[drewiv]

My one main question though, to help me decide what to get as an amp base for the modules; Can the Egnater Dual-channel modules be modded?? Like I know Pete and Salvation mods do wonders with the Randall ones, and that is what gives me hope I'll be able to get the tones I want in the end..

Yes, they can be modded.

My idea, is if I got a Egnater Mod 50, which only has 2 module slots, but dual channels on each.. If I could have the tones I want modded on two modules, that would essentially give me 4 channels, correct?

Kind of? You will have "4 channels", but, correct me if I'm wrong guys, this is not switchable on a foot switch and must be changed on the face of the module.

If the Dual channel Egnater modules can be modded, can you do two completely separate tones on each one? Or do they have to be very similar tones, with the 2nd channel just being like a "boost" of the first channel?

Rob answered that one above.

Last question, and i know the answer is 99% no, but is there ANY chance to get a RM22 that can use dual channels? home-mods, or is Bruce taking them in yet to adapt egnater modules??

No. If you want a simple head solution, you want an RM100 (3 channels). If you want 4 true channels you want an RM4 with a power amp (or Egnater version of either). I'd suggest a Randall RT2/50. I have both of these setups and really prefer my rack rig, FWIW.

 

[Skyze]

Yes, they can be modded.

Obviously they can be modded, but can BOTH channels be modded differently? That was the point of my question.

Kind of? You will have "4 channels", but, correct me if I'm wrong guys, this is not switchable on a foot switch and must be changed on the face of the module.

I am pretty sure actually that the Egnater ones, which are actually DUAL CHANNEL, yes indeed are switchable by footswitch. You are thinking of the Randall single channel mods that have "switches" on the physical units themselves, thats what can't be switched.

No. If you want a simple head solution, you want an RM100 (3 channels). If you want 4 true channels you want an RM4 with a power amp (or Egnater version of either). I'd suggest a Randall RT2/50. I have both of these setups and really prefer my rack rig, FWIW.

The whole point of asking about the RM22 is for a portable small rig; getting a RM100 or RT2/50 (50 lbs?? just the poweramp??) is not the solution to the RM22 question. I was specifically asking for people outside of the Egnater/Randall corp doing their own alteration to make RM22's accept egnater modules.

 

[JKD]

I just modded a dual Erect last week and there is one shared tonestack. Any perceived tonal differences between channels A and B are due to the increased saturation and the effect that has on the tonestack behind it. There is always a perception of added thickness in the tone when you go back and forth between 2 channels with a gain difference.

I always assumed there were more to the changes than just gain? Can't you do the equivalent of the mid-switch cap change going from A->B also?

I've not looked closely but it always seemed like the circuit doubled up in components in that part of the stack....course you know what they say about assumption and I know notheenk!

 

[Skyze]

To clear it up a bit more; I was specifically wondering if on Dual Channel modules, could you mod both channels to be COMPLETELY different?

Like say a Tweed on Channel A, and a Mesa Dual Recto on Channel B

Or even somewhat similar but different tone.. like a Tweed on Channel A, but a Plexi clean on Channel B... or a Mesa Recto on Chan A, and a XTC lead on Chan B

 

[drewiv]

I am pretty sure actually that the Egnater ones, which are actually DUAL CHANNEL, yes indeed are switchable by footswitch.

You are correct, I was not aware of that. I seem to recall reading somewhere that they were not, but I must have been making it up.

 

[JKD]

To clear it up a bit more; I was specifically wondering if on Dual Channel modules, could you mod both channels to be COMPLETELY different?

Like say a Tweed on Channel A, and a Mesa Dual Recto on Channel B

Or even somewhat similar but different tone.. like a Tweed on Channel A, but a Plexi clean on Channel B... or a Mesa Recto on Chan A, and a XTC lead on Chan B

Not possible...A and B always need to be in the same ballpark and of course share the EQ dials anyway.

Still waiting for JF to clarify whether any tonestack component swaps occur going from A->B or whether it's just gain.

 

[Jaded Faith]

The tonestack is shared, so you can't have two entirely different voiced channels on hand simply by switching from A to B. You are correct that there are open duplicate tonestack component positions on the board. These are wired to "SW2" on the PCB. It's a switch that isn't installed, but it's intentions would be much like the switch on the 1086 or Judge. Some of the old single Egnater modules did have the switch installed and offered two midrange voicings. Again though, it's a manual switching thing and not something hardwired to A/B or foot switchable.

 

[Skyze]

hm well.. What about having similar structure, but still some diversity to the different channels?

Essentially what I would like to have, if anyone has played the Carvin Legacy II, how the first channel is totally clean, and the 2nd channel is essentially a "pushed/boosted" signal of the first channel, yet it sounds totally awesome, so you have your straight up super clean, into a really nice bluesy grit hendrix type cleans..

And for higher gain, As long as I could get a solid modern rhythm, with the 2nd channel being like a smoother lead/boost, I'd be happy.

Its unfortunate they can't be completely different.. but I might still be able to make it work. Maybe if the E2 ever came out, it'd be easier to setup, putting that ontop of a Mod 50 so you have 4 channels. I just dont understand why they dont make a shorter/smaller RM50 with at least 3 channels, 2 channels aren't nearly enough imo (I also am going with these modules in the first place because I want extreme versatility, but dont really want another rack setup so the RM4 isnt totally appealing, but almost nessisary I suppose)

 

[rlord1974]

The tonestack is shared, so you can't have two entirely different voiced channels on hand simply by switching from A to B.

Really? Are we therefore saying that Salvation's dual channel Salvado Deluxe is in fact the same tonestack on both channels?

I am working with Scott Souter on a mod for a Randall single channel module that will include a front panel switch that will effectively change to a different channel/sound, including a change in the tonestack.

If it is possible to change tonestacks on a single channel Randall module by the flip of a switch, why couldn't an Egnater dually be wired to change tonestacks when switching between Channel A and Channel B?

 

[SacredGroove]

The tonestack is shared, so you can't have two entirely different voiced channels on hand simply by switching from A to B.

Really? Are we therefore saying that Salvation's dual channel Salvado Deluxe is in fact the same tonestack on both channels?

I am working with Scott Souter on a mod for a Randall single channel module that will include a front panel switch that will effectively change to a different channel/sound, including a change in the tonestack.

If it is possible to change tonestacks on a single channel Randall module by the flip of a switch, why couldn't an Egnater dually be wired to change tonestacks when switching between Channel A and Channel B?

I've never traced out an Eggie mod, but from what it looks like from the top of the module, the Gain and Master controls have their own control boards for switching, independently of each other. If that's true, then when the Gain control is switched, the signal probably continues thru the "active" Gain pot, and then thru the module as if it were a single channel, and when it gets to the Master control the signal with continue thru the "active" Master pot.

Between the Gain pots and Master pots, there is only a single path for any signal flow, therefore acting as a "single" channel module, and the Gain and Master controls are nothing but forks-in-the-road that will set In/Out levels, independently.

If the above is true, then the only way to change the TS, via footswitch, is to add another control board at the TS which will then provide another fork-in-the-road to switch between two different TS's. Otherwise, a toggle switch will have to do the job.

This is just my observations from the top of the board, but I can't think of how else the channel switching would work, without having two, independent paths for signal across the entire module.

 

[Jaded Faith]

The tonestack is shared, so you can't have two entirely different voiced channels on hand simply by switching from A to B.

Really? Are we therefore saying that Salvation's dual channel Salvado Deluxe is in fact the same tonestack on both channels?

I am working with Scott Souter on a mod for a Randall single channel module that will include a front panel switch that will effectively change to a different channel/sound, including a change in the tonestack.

If it is possible to change tonestacks on a single channel Randall module by the flip of a switch, why couldn't an Egnater dually be wired to change tonestacks when switching between Channel A and Channel B?

I haven't seen the Salvation mod in question, so I won't speak on that.

Regarding the Randal module you are having Scott build, all of us offer similar options. For example, I have a PlexiTweed that combines both amps tonestacks. It's nothing new in our modding community.

What is unique on the Egnater Dual modules is the Gain pots and Masters are split into two identical circuits with the ability to attenuate signals (the amount of gain on each) and they have a unique relay switching system. The relay switching regulates which of those dual paths is active. They both share the common tonestack and that is not routed through any switching network. I could see a circuit where you could theoretically have switching, but I would envision adding relays to accomplish it. It wouldn't use anything that's build into the modules already.

To answer your final question simply, we build add-on circuits when we add those switches to Randall modules. The switching is done manually via the switch. To have that switching occur on the Egnater module via footswitch when you select channel A/B involves more than what's typically built into a Randall add-on switch.

 

[alowerdeep]

I had a Salvado deluxe and it was not a 2 channel module...it had 5 toggles to try and use for a variety of tones......

 

[rlord1974]

Thanks Scott and Rob for the clarification around the dual Eggy's. I guess it just goes to show how much the gain impacts the overall tone - given that the tonestack stays the same switching between the two channels.

Cheers,

Rob

 

[Jaded Faith]

Thanks Scott and Rob for the clarification around the dual Eggy's. I guess it just goes to show how much the gain impacts the overall tone - given that the tonestack stays the same switching between the two channels.

Cheers,

Rob

Glad to help! Gain has a large impact on perceived tone in amps with the EQ late in the signal chain. When you kick in a signal gain in the amp circuit like that, the amplification factor is increased. So when that increased signal eventually hits the tonestack, the larger signal can make the EQ seem different on each channel. This is due to the extra signal providing more signal ("frequencies") to boost/cut.

This is part of the balancing act that has to be accounted for when building a gain boost into an amp or module. You need to make sure the lower gain setting doesn't give a perception of thinning out the tone.

 

[salvation]

If someone in this discussion have single Salvado (or Salvado Deluxe) module, then you are fimiliar with Crunch/Overdrive switch.
It switches between 2 different gain structures, one less gainy and less compressed Crunch channel based on Soldano Atomic and second is overdriven SLO Overdrive channel.
These 2 channels are quite different, it is not only gain cut.

On Dual Egnater Salvado module this switch is replaced by internal switching, so A channel is hardwired to crunch mode and B channel to Overdrive mode.
This is possible thanks to added another small board with another switching circuitry.
Of course, it shares only one tonestack, in the same way as real SLO 100.

Anthony

 

[m0jo]

If someone in this discussion have single Salvado (or Salvado Deluxe) module, then you are fimiliar with Crunch/Overdrive switch.
It switches between 2 different gain structures, one less gainy and less compressed Crunch channel based on Soldano Atomic and second is overdriven SLO Overdrive channel.
These 2 channels are quite different, it is not only gain cut.

On Dual Egnater Salvado module this switch is replaced by internal switching, so A channel is hardwired to crunch mode and B channel to Overdrive mode.
This is possible thanks to added another small board with another switching circuitry.
Of course, it shares only one tonestack, in the same way as real SLO 100.

Anthony

Good example, the gain structure change definitly gives the 2 channels a different character!
Combined with the seperate gain knob per channel you should have much more use out of it than just a gain boost.

Little question:
Would it be possible to hardwire the bite switch to on on the crunch channel and off on the gain channel?

 

[salvation]

Yes, it is possible.on dual channel module it does make sense. On last dual Salvado I did two separate switches. One boosts overdrive channel and second switch activates scoop Srv mode on Crunch channel. These switches are totally independent on each other.