Recording Computer Build Help Please...

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Daryl

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Hello.
I am looking to build a computer specifically for multitrack recording. I went to Newegg and could not get any good advice from them on what components I should look for. I would like to know what features to look for and what features are unnecessary. How much RAM do I really need and if I have a lot of RAM do I really need a super fast CPU. If any of you have some experience in this arena, let me know. I sure could use the help. Thanks.
:D :D :D
 
This one should do...

commodore_64.gif


Sorry, I use a standalone DAW....
 
Very Funny Fig...
All that thing is good for is rapping on it with a stick to get a percussion tone out of it. :lol: :lol: :lol:
 
If it turns on, maybe you could use it for a green light affect. :lol:

Maybe PM Julia, or she might chime in. I think she has done some research in this area. I just remember she was talking about not wanting to rebuild a whole new computer, & I thought her current recording PC she built or had built.
 
Yes, I'll chime in. You can write off all gear purchases for about a year, so you'd better be happy with what you've got. So run away. You think this is just about recording your Randall right now but it isn't. It grows into a monster.

First: Figure out what DAW software you're going to use. Sweetwater is probably the best place to buy software. They have lifetime support on the software you buy from them.

Second: Budget for the software. You're also going to need an interface, cables, and monitors.

Third: Go to the web site of the software company (DUC, Propellerhead, Steinberg, Presonus, Abelton, Sony Creative, etc.) and find out what you are going to need to run your rig.

If you're just starting out and need the biggest bang for the buck, and need more than one or two inputs (you'll use four, trust me), the best buy is the Avid Eleven Rack. Eleven Rack comes with Pro Tools LE 8 ($900), and you get the update to Pro Tools 9 for $249 at any time. Eleven Rack is a non-returnable item, however because it requires Pro Tools LE 8 just to run unless you update to Pro Tools 9. PT 9 has a lot of great features added like delay compensation -- this is caused by using plugs that have "look ahead" stuff on your tracks. Eleven Rack is also an amp modeler and has some great models on it, along with some great cabinet models. It's a little shy on effects so if you're an effects ***** you'll need some add ons like a MFX unit, which you probably already have -- like a Lexicon MX200 or MX300 or like a G-Major or even a L6 M9 to run in its effects loop.

As much as you say "I'm going to record my Randall" it is so much easier to use a modeler and no one is going to be able to tell the difference on a recording anyway. In fact you can even gig with this thing. In fact you could do 99% of gigs with a Peavey Bandit and no one would know the difference.

But you don't need to update to PT 9 right away. I'm still using M-Powered PT 8.0.4 cs2. You could just do your update to PT LE 8.0.4 cs2 and probably be fine for a few years. Oh, and PT 9 is compatible with external USB drives that run at 7200 RPM, whereas PT 8 runs only with SATA drives and Firewire (but I'd really avoid Firewire if you can -- there have been issues)

Here's what you are going to need though:

1) A motherboard with an INTEL chipset that will work with an Intel i7 processor (or you could probably get by with an i5). Go Intel, not AMD. There can be compatibility issues with AMD. Most of my recordings have between 12 and 24 tracks. I did one with 32 and it brought my CPU (Intel Q6600 Quad Core) to its knees.

2) A dedicated graphics card. It doesn't have to be the latest and greatest. Just one that's not more than two years out of date.

3) Two 1 TB SATA drives. I'd really advise this instead of anything smaller or external. DO NOT configure these in RAID no matter what they tell you. You will use one for all your applications and one for your data storage.

The reason I'm saying TWO 1 TB is that there are now plugins like East-West's piano plugin that use 260 GB of disk space. That's right 260 GB for four pianos alone. But **** these things really do sound like an acoustic Steinway, Boesendorfer, or Bechstein, and Yamaha. And you will be buying plugins. Plug-ins will replace GAS.

You will buy virtual instrument packs. One of the first will be a drum kit pack like Addictive Drums. Then you'll want something for bass, and once that starts the next thing is other virtual instruments like synths and stuff -- I'd recommend Reason 5 because its easy to use and they have better support than Native Instruments. Then you'll want something to help you with vocals. Then you'll want a better Convolution Reverb/IR pack (something that isn't just for guitar cabs). Then you'll want to learn how to do some craptastic mastering so Sony Soundforge (that comes with the Izotope Mastering Bundle) comes into play because it's a bargain, or you'll just bite the bullet and go with Ozone and try to pretend you're Bob Ludwig even though you'll never get there without years of experience and a few $million.

Another option for DAW software and VI pack is Propellerhead Reason 5/Record 1.5 bundle. It's $400. Record comes with POD Farm. The downside is that Record doesn't support third party plugins. You'll have to buy Reason refills instead.

A lot of people use Reaper for a DAW because it's cheap. It'll get you by, but you know? there are better out there. And there are far worse out there. Reaper supports VST stuff, and Pro Tools only supports RTAS, and if you went Mac (you think Windows has a lot of updates and stuff? ha ha ha) Logic is the way to go, but Macs get you into everything being proprietary and they're expensive. Good but expensive.

4) A DVD-R Burner

5) RAM -- 6 to 12 GB Ram should be sufficient.

Then you'll need your OS. Windows 7. Then for when you do connect to the internet (you'll need to just to grab updates), you'll need an anti-virus/anti-spyware program and I'd recommend Sunbelt Software's Vipre. Stay away from anything that says Symantec or McAfee. You'll also want to make sure you have automatic updates turned off on your PC


NEVER DO ANY OPERATING SYSTEM UPDATE, OR QUICKTIME UPDATE, THAT IS NOT APPROVED BY THE PLACE THAT MADE YOUR DAW SOFTWARE.


6) Monitors: you'll need a good LCD monitor and I'd go nothing smaller than 27". 30" if you can swing it. Or you can go with two 22" monitors so you can have your transport window on one, and mix window on the other.

7) Speaker monitors -- don't skimp. I'm reading good things about these: http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/MSP5stu/

8) Cables: Buy a spool of shielded balanced cable, and a bunch of solderless connectors and make your own. Canare makes a good cable. http://www.redco.com/shopexd.asp?id=540. You'll also need Neutrik connectors in 1/4" TRS and XLR male and female. It's probably cheaper to get about 250' of cable and a ton of connectors and make your own. This will run you about the price of about 8 Mogami Gold cables or Monster cables. Buy a Behringer cable tester while you're at it. Call Redco for details. It's a lot cheaper this way because you're always going to need one more cable of a particular length, and they don't sell the short jumper cables that make the back of the rack easy to work with.

9) Microphones..... yes this does come up. For vocals you'll need a large diaphragm condenser mic. Audio Technica makes some real good ones for not too much green stuff. You'll need a shock mount and a pop screen. I like Shure myself. Rode seems to be popular with the guys. Your interface usually has a preamp which will be good enough to start with, but you might want to add something like a Presonus Studio Channel or two later.

If you do decide to mic your cabs, know that this isn't the easiest thing to do. The Shure SM57 is the standard for live use and for recording most crap you hear on the internet, but most pros use three mics on a guitar cab: one dynamic on the edge of the dust cap, a ribbon (Royer 121) on the cone, and a LDC in the room about 3' off the cab. Moving a mic 1" can make a huge difference in sound. So you spend all day getting eveything set up, and now you're ready to record and your cat knocks over one of the mics and you've got to start over again. See why I say recording with a model is easier?

So now that I've completely discouraged you, I'll tell you it's fun. It's rewarding.

Just forget about another guitar or more modules for a year or so. For guitar recording I use a POD HD500. It does everything I can think of.
 
Thanks Julia,
That's a lot of info to process and I appreciate all of it. More input, more input, more input. Number 5 is alive!!! More input, more input...
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Please excuse the "Short Circuit" reference.
 
Well Julia,

that was rather EXHAUSTIVE! lol.

Now that you have frightened him of the boogieman, I can offer some computer buying advice.... :D


OS - go with what you are used to. Pro Tools, the popular choice (but certainly not the only) seems to be friendlier with Mac, but if you are a Windows "user" you may not want to relearn the computer while you are trying to record your tunes too.

You know the names in parts, Western Digital, Corsair, ASUS, Intel etc., stick with what you know works. You know the rule about computer speed and capacity; more = better It will help to get the silent fans, and a good quality power supply, with a quiet fan. Eliminating noise is a headache you may encounter.

As Julia said, must have budget for dedicated video card, audio interface, monitor speakers or headphones and good cables. You can be as gaga about it as your wallet allows. The Avid Mbox with Pro Tools in a proven winner, but Line 6 is doing a lot of work in this area. I just got a Line 6 Pod studio, it was cheap. Works great for me to throw down riffs. Riff Tracker will get you composing quickly. Gotta suit your own needs here; some folks like to tinker and agonize over things, some folks just wanna rock out and listen back, and some just want to spew opinions on internet BBs....doh, sorry!


good luck and have fun!
 
I am not in the least bit scared off or daunted by the idea of computer recording. Nor do I underestimate the complexity of the equation. I am totally prepared to do my homework and face the learning curve head on. I expect to get impatient, frustrated, perplexed, and fucking enraged from time to time, but I've learned that nothing valuable ever comes easy. I am currently putting together an Intel i5 760 system with 8 gigs of ram, with room for an additional 8 on the ASUS P7P55D-E LGA board, and a Radeon 5770 graphics card. I researched the processors for hours before I came to the conclusion that an i5 is plenty for recording. In fact the i5 750 and 760 both share the same "nehalum' architecture as the top of the line i7 series. My hard drives will be Sata 6. I have the Line 6 Gearbox Gold package that contains all of the Line 6 algorithms, with the exception of the new HD stuff. Incidentally, I also have Rifftracker, Line 6 edition. I like getting as close to plugging in and letting it rip as possible. That is one of the reasons I have side-stepped the Axe-Fx Ultra. Once it is capable of actually connecting to a computer without a midi to usb adapter, I might consider it as a "finished product" ready for retail. It's a freaking software based, amp modeling system, for crying out loud!
I am looking forward to trying some new stuff and getting more familiar with the recording programs. I've played around with Cubase and I've dabbled with Pro Tools, but I am looking to put some effort into this journey. I'm fishing for experience here. If you got some knowledge that you gained from trial and error or intense research, spit it. I will keep you posted as to further developments. Once again I appreciate anything and everything so thank you very much for your ideas and hit me up with some more. Peace. :D
 
So Daryl, are you dead set on computer recording? There's lotsa great standalone units that accomodate plug-ins and such just as a computer...Even something like a used Roland VS-2480 will get you GREAT recordings and the interfaces and everything is built in...You can still edit waveforms and all that **** too...Flying faders, monitor output, DVD backups, big HD...Just a thought....I know computers are the future of recording but there's other options that will do what you want in an all-in-one setup that won't have conflicts between competing products and such...

My $.02...
 
Actually I'd take a real close look at Presonus Studio One.

You can get a Firewire interface like this one: http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/FireStuProj/ and it comes with the Studio One Artist edition.

The upside is that the Pro version will even run on my outdated machine. This link shows the difference between the Artist and Pro versions.

http://www.presonus.com/products/SoftwareDetail.aspx?SoftwareId=11

If you need "Rewire" like with some virtual instrument software like Reason 5, you need the Pro version. Thing is for only $200 more than the the above you can upgrade from the Artist to the Pro version.

Personally, if I were to get into this today, I wouldn't go with Pro Tools. I was reading more about their recommended system requirements which are an Avid tested computer, and when I saw Xeon processors and only specific versions of certain PCs which when I started adding up crap ended up over $3000. They're not saying the software won't run on other systems, just that it might have issues. So to Avid, to quote a former vice president "Go f*** yourselves."

I would probably go with Studio One Pro, and just start with that interface and Artist, then add on.

Still I'd look at spending $1400 on a PC w/ an i7 Bloomfield, 8 to 12 GB RAM, at least a 1 TB system HD, and a 500 GB Data drive, Firewire 800, an nVidia graphics card. Contact a local computer shop and see what they'd charge to build one for you. It'll be a lot cheaper than a Dell or HP. Stay away from wireless mouses and keyboards because you may have interference if you have anything else wireless in the recording studio.

The Nehalem is a good processor btw.

So basically you're looking at around $2500 (incl a decent pair of near field monitors) to get started.
 
I am a long time Cakewalk/Sonar user - since about 1989. Finally got sick of having to fork over $100 every time they change something.

Check out Reaper (google it - I think it's www.reaper.fr). You can demo it for as long as you want with full features and I think it's only $50 to purchase. It does everything you need.

I also bought a Mac Mini and love it. Garage Band is stupid easy and Reaper has a Mac version and the files are compatible with the PC version.

Just some thoughts.
 
The thing is that you don't HAVE to fork over $100 every time they come out with a new version. Like PT9. I'm happy with 8.0.4 cs 2. It runs everything I use. Basically if it ain't broke you don't have to update. Just make sure you don't update you OS and Internet Exploder, and I'll throw Quicktime in there too. And you'll be fine. There are people still running PT6. We still get questions for that on DUC.

Unless your a professional studio you don't have to keep up, and if you were a pro studio you'd be using something like Pro Tools HD 9 for about $5000 or Nuendo at $1800. You wouldn't be messing around with our low end stuff.

If you think about it, I'm still running Win XP. i'm two OS behind. But if I upgraded to Win 7 I'd have to spend money updating software. But XP works just fine for me.

I may DL Reaper just because a lot of people use it and I do group projects sometimes. Typically I just have them send a copy of an MP3 to me and work my parts in with that, then send my single channel or stereo .wav part back.
 
Hey Daryl

Sounds like you are on the right path. I've built my last 4 computers so I know a thing or 2 about them (pc's)

Nehaleum range is where you want to be for sure, it will be future proof for another 3-4 years np. I'm on a q9450 and still doing strong but I don't run huge track counts.

spec's
-i5/i7 range
-gigabyte or asus is fine but stay away from gaming rigs
-6gb ram (get a mobo that takes 3 sticks of ram it 2gb * 3) is enough to get started for sure (i'm still running 4gb and do everything I need)
-Hard Drives don't matter too much just get a 1 or 2 tb drive and if you got extra cash you can get a SSD drive for the OS installation (c:) I recommend Western Digital Black or Samsung F1 (quiet and fast) but I'm not sure what is good for SSD drives as I don't have one yet
-Video Cards just stay away from gaming rigs and try to getting passive cooling it's much quieter
-Get a quality power supply becuase cheap ones can ruin your mobo and cpu
-If you can try to avoid firewire interface if you can help it, well it depends but overall firewire is dying in 1 or 2 years and their prone to all sorts of problems USB (rme) is better for most cases and PCIe is even better but really rare nowadays.

Depending what kind of interface you want the best right now for pc are RME, Steinberg MR816, EMU 1616m (cheap but quaint), M-Audio Profire (8 channel i/o), SSL (full blown 12 channels audio$$). Fireface UC is around $1200 or UFX is really $$ :shock: but incredible. The old Fireface800's will be cheaper now that they are getting replaced that may be wise choice second hand. If you only need 2 channels in and out you can just get a 2 channel there are lots of them like rme babyface (USB), rme hammerfall (PCIe - these don't have breakout boxes).

Best reasonably price interface probably steinbers also includes 8 decent preamps and cubase AI version for free (integration-minimal)... Cubase is a great choice I also use it.

You should be able to get a new system for under a $1000 and windows 7 pro for under $200.00 so now so have fun, look here some prebuilt systems from adkproaudio.com, they have very nice rigs there.

:D
- tip with cubase pro you can make plugin's out of any gear you have like hardware or reverb effect's boxes you might have...
 
A note on Firewire:

In general it's agreed that the best choice FW chipset for audiointerfaces using a FW hub is one with a Texas Instruments chipset
(I would tend to disagree that FW will go the way of the dodo before USB since performance from USB is much lower than FW, but technological advances aren't alway logical)

A note on PCI(e):

Keep an eye on shared resources
You don't want your interface sharing an IRQ with another slot (in use)
You might have to swap cards to achieve that

A note on USB:

Less is better
The more USB devices connected to a hub, the less performance you will get out of it
So for audio a dedicated USB interface (expansioncard) may be the way to go
 
The Firewire answer will be "Firewire 1600" to answer USB 3.0. But it's not out yet.

Don't use USB hubs with audio devices. That's a no no. The cards aren't that expensive. Make sure you have a dedicated USB input for each audio device.
 
usb is much better than it once was (usb1). At present there is no real reason to use firewire over usb because at present speeds are not fully utilized as it is. USB3's extra speed won't really make a difference to audio/video applicatons. USB 2 (RME drivers) and most decent audio firewire drivers can easily perform any audio/video tasks that regular studio's can throw at them. I just honestly have nothing but bad experience with firewire and BSOD crashes (plus latency 2-3ms longer). I'm happy I'm also ditching duende (firewire) into native plugin's when they switch over in a bit.

the other thing I noticed is he picked a crossfire board which might or might not be an issue. It's gaming related and not necessary for audio rigs.

/p
 
Julia said:
Don't use USB hubs with audio devices. That's a no no.

I wasn't even talking about 'add on' hubs, but the 2/4/8 port USB you'll find on MoBo's
Like a router and your net connection, the more ports you address for in/outgoing data
the more the bandwith is spread

there is still just one chipset handling it all
 
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