RM 4 & DI box & Speaker simulator

[Petrucci]

Hi guys and Merry Cristmas!

Cause RM4 doesn't offer record/simulate output I must find solution for my home records.
After a lot of research I found that one of these two boxes will be fine for my needs.

Palmer PDI 09 The Junction:
http://www.palmer-germany.com/82-1-pdi09.html

Hughes&Kettner Red Box Classic:
http://www.hughes-and-kettner.com/products.php5?id=110

What do you think? What's your experience?
Are there other "cheap'' solutions on the market with best results?

Thank you and best regards!

 

[Graham Pearson]

I have 2 Hughes and Kettner Red Box Pro Cabinet Emulators. I assume these are similar to the Classic DIs. When I play with a 3-piece band, I use these to record rhythm tracks into a DigiTech JamMan Stereo Phrase Sampler/Looper. My JamMan has a Transcend Ultimate 16GB Class 10 SDHC Card installed to give it about 16 hours capacity, so each pre-recorded loop is a complete song.

The Red Box DI needs 48 volt phantom power but it works very well. I highly recommend them for your application. Please let us know what you eventually decide to use and how well it works.

 

[johnodge]

I use the Mic Eliminator out of my cab now, for recording and live use, but I still use a pair of Behringer Ultra-G cab sim di's for silent running. IMO these are awesome!

 

[sschultz242]

I too have been using the behringer ultra g and have been for about 6 years now. The Palmer is indeed an awesome unit, but the behringer for a fraction of the price works very, VERY well!!

 

[Nightdare]

For a long time I've played the RM4 at home with several different Speaker sims
Red box Pro, sims of a Rocktron Piranha, sims of an MPX G2

and all more or less needed some EQ, either before or after the simulator
getting boomy low end, fizzy high end if I didn't

 

[Mike P]

Hi guys and Merry Cristmas!

Cause RM4 doesn't offer record/simulate output I must find solution for my home records.
After a lot of research I found that one of these two boxes will be fine for my needs.

Palmer PDI 09 The Junction:
http://www.palmer-germany.com/82-1-pdi09.html

Hughes&Kettner Red Box Classic:
http://www.hughes-and-kettner.com/products.php5?id=110

What do you think? What's your experience?
Are there other "cheap'' solutions on the market with best results?

Thank you and best regards!

I've never used the Palmer PDI-09, so I can't comment. I have used Red Boxes and others.

The very best hardware speaker simulator made was the ADA Microcab and Microcab II. They have several emulations including 1x12 open and closed, 2x12 open and closed and a 4x12 cab plus a low and high end EQ. They're a little difficult to find these days but usually run around $100 dollars or so and are worth ten time that, IMO.

With online retailers having such generous return policies these days, you could order a Red Box and a Behringer to compare, then return one or both.

Outside of that, you could run the direct out from your RM4 to your DAW and use an VST like ReCabinet or even the cabinet simulators from Guitar Rig 4 & 5 Pro.

There are lots of options available. Good luck!

 

[Mike P]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/TESTED-ADA-MICROCAB-GUITAR-MIKED-CABINET-EMULATOR-MANUAL-POWER-XFRMR-WARRANTY-/250960253242?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a6e65913a

ADA Microcab. $129.95 Buy It Now.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ADA-MicroCAB-Miked-Guitar-Cabinet-Emulator-Effects-Processor-Micro-Cab-188262-/260916675106?pt=Guitar_Accessories&hash=item3cbfd88222

Free shipping $134.95

Microcab II 195.00

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ADA-Microcab-II-Cabinet-Emulator-Speaker-Simulator-Make-Your-Combo-into-Stack-/270849149630?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f0fde0abe

Look clean and no wall wart.

 

[hyenik]

Better to play without HW speaker simulator, simply because they are not good enough. It is emergency solution for gigs, nothing more.

Best wepage with samples, explanations, blind tests and many more
http://www.franknitsch.com/speaker-sims/

I did comparison with Impulse Responses (which I use) and I can?t describe results without irony. Simply HW is not good enough.

My friend worked on mix of one legendary czech thrash metal band, which sended raw guitar tracks through Palmer. He sended their back for re-recording, because... you know answer already

 

[SacredGroove]

If you're a plug'n play type of person, the ADA MicroCab should do you fine. If you're a tweaker type of person, then I suggest using Impulse Responses with your DAW.

I use RedWirez IRs, and couldn't be happier. You can buy one speaker cab at a time or as many as you want, and with every cab you buy the next one is cheaper.

I've used Recabinet, and found them to be kind of dull and sometimes boring. But, there's a lot of people that really like Recabinet. The last I knew, Recabinet only offered a bundled package of all there speaker cabs, making your initial purchase more expensive.

The speaker sim boxes are cool, but only for adding flavor to existing tracks. I have a Red Box Classic and an old DMC CabTone that don't sound the greatest on their own, but they become useful when used together or as an addition mic'ed tracks.

 

[Mike P]

I've used Recabinet, and found them to be kind of dull and sometimes boring. But, there's a lot of people that really like Recabinet. The last I knew, Recabinet only offered a bundled package of all there speaker cabs, making your initial purchase more expensive.

ReCabinet 3 is now available as a VST, AU or RTAS for Windows or Mac. It's $99.00 and has a large library of cabinets and mics. There's a free demo as well.

That said, I've made master quality recording with the ADA Microcab and it's far easier to dial in (and doesn't eat any CPU).

 

[Graham Pearson]

It looks to me like Cabinet Emulators could be simulated with a High-Pass Filter and an EQ that rolls off the high frequencies. What's wrong with this approach?

 

[SacredGroove]

That said, I've made master quality recording with the ADA Microcab and it's far easier to dial in (and doesn't eat any CPU).

Indeed! It's great piece! 8)

If memory serves correctly, the MicroCab II moved the power supply inside the chassis to eliminate the huge wall wart, and it also added a speaker level pass-thru, so a speaker or load-box NEEDS to be used. :wink:

 

[Mike P]

That said, I've made master quality recording with the ADA Microcab and it's far easier to dial in (and doesn't eat any CPU).

Indeed! It's great piece! 8)

If memory serves correctly, the MicroCab II moved the power supply inside the chassis to eliminate the huge wall wart, and it also added a speaker level pass-thru, so a speaker or load-box NEEDS to be used. :wink:

What I'd done in the past (pretty distant at this point!) is to send the signal from the FX Send to the Microcab and have a speaker cabinet plugged into the head with the Master Volume set to Zero. That way, the head saw a load but with no volume in the room.

If I owned an RM4, I wouldn't hesitate to use a Microcab. I'd send the signal through one of my Vintech preamps for an even better recording.

 

[Nightdare]

Personally I think in time I'll be looking at something like a Weber unit

 

[Mike P]

Personally I think in time I'll be looking at something like a Weber unit

The Palmer PDI-03 is an exact replica of the Weber units, which are no longer made.

But in this case, it's complete overkill because the OP is using an RM4, so a speaker simulator like a Red Box or Behringer or ADA or IR's will be fine.

 

[Graham Pearson]

No bites on my previous post yet:

It looks to me like Cabinet Emulators could be simulated with a High-Pass Filter and an EQ that rolls off the high frequencies. What's wrong with this approach?

Check out the following page (this was suggested in a previous post):
http://www.franknitsch.com/speaker-sims/frequency-response.php

It states: "Of course there are more parameters (than frequency response) influencing the sound of a speaker simulator".

So what are these parameters and what would be so terrible about approximating a Speaker Simulator with a multi-band EQ?

 

[Mike P]

So what are these parameters and what would be so terrible about approximating a Speaker Simulator with a multi-band EQ?

When a speaker simulator can be purchased for less than $100.00, why would anyone want to spend time trying to approximate that sound with an EQ unit? What EQ unit? An EQ pedal would likely cost more than either a Red Box and most certainly more than the Behringer.

Also, that website is years old and IMO, irrelevant as we near 2012 because there are a multitude of options available today that weren't available then.

 

[Petrucci]

But in this case, it's complete overkill because the OP is using an RM4, so a speaker simulator like a Red Box or Behringer or ADA or IR's will be fine.

Sorry Mike P, but what's "OP"?

Thank you guys for all the inputs.

 

[Mike P]

But in this case, it's complete overkill because the OP is using an RM4, so a speaker simulator like a Red Box or Behringer or ADA or IR's will be fine.

Sorry Mike P, but what's "OP"?

Thank you guys for all the inputs.

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