Salvation mods Benzin V.age4 vs Diezel VH4s

[maxxstock]

So recently I got the dual EQ Benzin V.age4 module. My friend has in studio the original Diezel VH4s and I am going to compare both amps. I hope this information will be very interesting...

My English is bad, but I hope many will understand me)))

Benzin module is installed in my Egnater M4 and will be tested in return VH4s head. Power amp tubes is Ruby EL34B.
Cabinet is Mesa stilletto 4x12 (2-V30 and 2-K85)

The results will be for this week ...


Hi guys! Sorry I'm late, but the experiment is finished.


Continued below ...

 

[JKD]

Look forward to seeing the result, I have a Dual EQ Benzin and it kind of rocks, pretty much unlike any of the Marshall/Mesa type modules....it has a *huge* low end and crushing amounts of gain.

 

[buriedorburned]

Very interested in this comparison, really miss my old Benzin mod.

 

[Ulf]

Although I like the way the Benzin and JF Diezel Mod sound, they do not compare to a VH-4. The modules have less "tone" in the attack and the feel less defined. On the other hand I like both modules because the offer more attack and treble than the VH-4.

 

[maxxstock]

Continued below...

Hi guys! Sorry I'm late, but the experiment is finished.

At the beginning of general points:
1. On the module it is possible to obtain only 2, 3 and 4 channel of VH4. So, clean channel we I have not tested.
2. Modules include return original Diezel VH4S head.
3. Complete chain this:
Ibanez AX1220 japan( seymour duncan JB)- M4/VH4s- Mesa 4x12(V30)- SM57- sound card - PC

First impression of the V.age4 module were very good. Sound and feel while playing the guitar were very similar to the original (all three modes).

However, more detailed study revealed the following differences:
1. EQ work differently. The module clearly less high (crispy) frequencies than the original. Yes I know that is not bright at all VH4s amplifier but in the module, treble was even less. Another oddity was held that when twisting the treble knob to the right, the sound became poisonous. Appeared strange mids unpleasant to the ear.
2. In Salvation module significantly more gain in each mode than in the original head. In fact, it's not bad, but the mode of Channel 4 was a little too thick, inflated and smooth. Reducing the gain to a level of 8.00 hours to rectify the situation a bit, but it was not easy to play.
3. Module for all three modes sound more smooth and soft compared to the head. But the blow characteristic Diezel amps and I was happy about that!

This is only the differences, you can not call them weak or strong points.
We recorded a few samples first 4 cycles sounds VH4S, and the following 4 cycles sounds salvation mods.
EQ and gain settings were different (they are listed below), as we wanted to approximate the sound examples.

Settings CH2:
Vh4s: gain-12.00, treble-12.00, mid-12.00, bass-12.00, bright- on
V.age4: gain-10.00, treble-15.00, mid-11.00, bass-11.00
http://www.tonefinder.com/files/521402266463-2Ch.mp3

Settings CH3:
Vh4s: gain-12.00, treble-12.00, mid-12.00, bass-12.00
V.age4: gain-10.00, treble-15.00, mid-11.00, bass-10.00
http://www.tonefinder.com/files/681402266539-3Ch.mp3

Settings CH4:
Vh4s: gain-11.00, treble-12.00, mid-12.00, bass-12.00
V.age4: gain-8.00, treble-15.00, mid-11.00, bass-10.00
http://www.tonefinder.com/files/221402266574-4Ch.mp3

full clips:
http://www.tonefinder.com/index.php?section=user&value=maxxstock

My personal conclusions I will write after your guys :wink:

 

[buriedorburned]

Very interesting to say the least! Definitely lacking a bit of punch on the module side, and you could tell there was less gain too, but tone wise it wasn't far off. Now i wonder how these sample would then compare to the module through a regular RM power section. Obviously Diezel is known for theirs, but how much would it be affected? Would it be night and day, like say an Uberschall mod verses the real thing and it's renowned power section?

 

[salvation]

Hey Guys,
I appreciate your interest in Salvation modules and comparing. It is great that you spend time by recording and testing amps and modules. Thanks for your hard work on it.
I carefully read that thread and I just need to write a few facts about it:

1.) In my hands were about four different VH4 amps in the past.
Fact is that EACH of them was different.
Not in terms like other amps, which uses the same schematic and design for whole product run: these amps was really different in circuitry.
Maybe they were customized by company directly for customer? Maybe.
Theywere wired in different way, and some key components were different too. The differ in amount of gain, compression, colour of tone etc. All of them had thsi signature Diezel timbre, but I have to say that these amps was not the same.
For example some VH4 had treble bleed cap across Gain Pot, and some of them had simply JUMPER instead of that cap. therefore: behaviour of Gain pot is very different then.
Last VH4 that I tried and checked on winter 2014 was my favourite.
Interesting is that this amp had far less gain (on all channels). Reportedly it is VH4 ised by German band Rammstein.
Benzin module and V.Age 4 was designed after different VH4 and also compared by VH4 owned by Billy Corgan of Smashing Pumpkins in Chicago (I was working for him back in 2012).
Considering different power amp (Corgan used Mesa Boogie Strategy) bwe were very close, and Corgan still uses Diezel module (unmodified) in his setup. http://www.premierguitar.com/articles/Rig_Rundown_Smashing_Pumpkins_Billy_Corgan
So, question is, what is the "right sound of VH4"?



2.) Presence trimmer on V.Age.4:
There is only a few these modules and all of them has added presence trimmer inside. It was added just for balance the right tone with different power amps. Try to turn this presence trimmer little back, while truning TREBLE pot to the right.

3.) Power amp:
module was designed for using with more common power amps.
I dont think that user with VH4 will use VH4 just for power amp of the MTS module.
I trust that with power amp of VH4 the module sounds different.
So, module in RM100 power amp with MDA board active was the configuration which was used when module was tuned.
For example Corgan uses VH4 module with Mesa Boogie Strategy power amp, and this combination replaced his VH4 with no additional changes.

All the best

Antonin
Salvation Mods

 

[blacksun]

I'm very familiar with Diezels also being a previous Diezel owner and I can honestly say I don't miss them after I got the Vage4 and the Herbie. However, like all mts modules they are preamps and only represent one part of the pickup --> preamp --> power amp --> cab.

Especially the Herbert power amp an entity that's hard to capture, but again, as for the preamp section which is what the mts system is all about - the salvo benzins are absolutely stellar IMHO

 

[maxxstock]

Hi everyone!
I am glad to see the responses from Anthony and Magnus. Now I play a lot Benzin V.Age4 module and I more and more like the work of Anthony.
I do not have the possibility to check the V.Age4 module with power section RM amplifiers, but today I recorded another clip. Module include in Marshall JCM800 POWER amp and I was very pleased with the results)))

The line looks like this:
Ibanez AX1220 --->ibanez TS9--->M4 preamp--->JCM800 POWER amp--->4x12 cab
Recording double track: V30 + K85

Settings V.Age4: CH3, gain-10.00, treble-13.00, mid-11.00, bass-13.00

http://www.tonefinder.com/files/701403120661-_010101_g.mp3

What do you think about this?

 

[maxxstock]

Hi guys!
I added another clip. Benzin V.age4 module in the mix with the bass and drums.
I had to act quickly, but nevertheless I am happy with the result!

http://www.tonefinder.com/files/561403261722-_010101.mp3

Waiting for your reviews)))