SYN1 in Mesa TC-50 loop?

[9985]

Thinking about getting a Mesa Triple Crown TC-50 Combo in lieu of my PRS Archon 50 Combo, tried one at a dealer this weekend, very nice amp, ton of features & MIDI controls. Would like to be able to run my SYN1 in the loop in 4CM. The SYN1 manual says that some Mesa loops don't play nice:

There are some special requirements and/or caveats when using the SYN to add channels to your amp.
The loop on your amp MUST be a 100% series loop. The SYN1 will not work in a parallel loop. If in doubt, consult the manufacturer of your amp to determine this. One known issue is with the Mesa Dual and Triple Rectifier, Road King and Roadster amps that prevents the SYN1 from working properly in the loop. By design, the Boogie loops always have a small amount of dry signal mixed in with the loop which will wreak havoc with many effects and also the SYN1. There may be other amps that we are not aware of with loops that are not compatible. We will make this information available as we discover these issues.

Anyone have any idea about the TC-50 loop being the same/different from the Recto/Road King/Roadster? I dug around on Mesa forum & didn't see anything- The manual for the TC-50 says the loop is 100% Series, but doesn't make any references to the design being different from other Mesa loops. I may just bring the SYN1 to the dealership & try it.

EDIT: got a quick email reply from Mesa tech support when I asked about difference between the TC-50 loop & known problematic Mesa loops for Synergy 4CM wasn't particularly helpful: "the loop is a Series Loop, whereas many of the Recto's had a parallel loop at one time."

EDIT 2: also got an email response from Synergy to my question about compatibility with the TC-50 loop, non-committal: "As we don't manufacture Mesa...we have no idea. We've just heard...and I would assume that the ones that don't play nice are parallel effects loops. Technically, if the loop is series, it 'should' work."

So - my question for Synergy owners; can anyone share their experience using a SYN1/SYN2 in 4CM with a TC-50 or TC-100?

 

[RipperShred]

Series loop = you're good. Mesa power sections sound good, so it should be... well... all good.

 

[9985]

Not all Series loops are designed the same. The series loop in my Archon 50 combo doesn't work well with the SYN1 in 4CM (adding channels to the amp), because of how the Master controls for the clean & lead channels are designed. Those 2 Master controls function as send level into the loop, they are bypassed entirely when you connect a SYN1 in 4CM- the power section runs full bore, with only the gain & volume controls on the module in the SYN1 impacting the output volume. The SYN1's front panel volume control in 4CM configuration is assigned only to Main Output (line out). End result is major difference in volume when switching between the SYN1 and either of the 2 onboard Archon channels. I have spent hours trying to get the levels balanced, there's no way I have found to get both: good sounding tone out of any module (tried lots), and a good tone from the onboard channels, at anything close to the same levels that are usable for a live gig- one is always either way too quiet, or deafening. Requires fiddling around on the fly (mid song) with volume/master/gain levels. A few posts recommended putting a volume pedal at the end of the chain in the loop to act as a return level, but don't really want to mess with that- so I just stopped using the SYN1 with the Archon, which is why I'm considering the TC-50.

My initial demo with the TC-50 with a delay pedal in the loop had none of those level problems when the loop is engaged or bypassed, wildly different settings on the 3 channels' gain/master did not require adjusting anything on the level of the effect in the loop to provide the same "feel" on the effect. I'm hoping to find a user that has a SYN1/SYN2 and a TC-50 to confirm they can balance the levels vs the onboard channels well in 4CM.

 

[shanemaderejr]

I only know that my SYN-1 works amazing in my Mesa Mark V 90 loop with my Fractal AX8 in 4CM. When I switch to the BE/BB, it sounds like those amps; not like a “Boogied” version of them with any bleed through.

 

[9985]

That's good to know. So you are going 4CM from the SYN1 into the Mark V loop & then 4CM from the AX8 into the loop of the SYN1?

I tried similar "double 4CM" config with my HX Effects, SYN1 And Archon 50 at home, it works, but I still have many problems level matching between SYN1 and the onboard amp channels. Also requires a spaghetti mess of cables that I would be hesitant to deal with at a live gig. Planning on taking my whole rig to Mesa dealership & trying with a tc-50 in a few weeks.

 

[Mike Hasty]

I have a Syn-1 and have run it into my Mesa TC-100 effects loop 4CM and it works perfectly and sounds amazing. I'm almost certain the 50 and 100 watt versions of the head feature the same loop so I think you are good to go with that method.

 

[9985]

Thanks for the reply.

 

[Fremen]

I have a SYN-2 and I'm trying to use it with a brand new TC-50, which I'm using for the first time. It does work in the loop of the TC, however, I'm having a had time figuring how to set the MIDI switching from my Fractal Audio AX8. What I want is this, using scenes in a FX8 preset :
Scene 1 : Mesa TC clean channel
Scene 2 : Mesa TC Lo channel
Scene 3 : Mesa TC Hi Channel
Scene 4 : SYN-2 module 1 blue channel
Scene 5 : SYN-2 module 1 red channel
Scene 6 : SYN-2 module 2 blue channel
Scene 7 : SYN-2 module 2 red channel
The FX8 is used in 4 cables method. Delay is on in each scene. I managed to have the correct channel selected for each scene, HOWEVER, the delay can't be heard in scenes 1 and 3 (meaning the post-loop part of the FX8 is bypassed), plus, in Scene 6 I have no sound at all. I have to click on "FX" button on the Mesa TC footswitch to enable delay in scenes 1 & 3, and to hear the SYN-2 module 2 blue channel in scene 6. And I don't want to use the footswitch, but only the FX8 MIDI to select channels. Any help with solving that would be greatly appreciated !

 

[9985]

I don't have AX8/FX8 (you said both models) & can't help with Fractal MIDI programming... but I can tell you that the TC-50's FX loop has to be enabled all the time for 4CM to work properly- same as any amp with a selectable loop. Using 4CM effectively "moves" the internal loop of the TC-50 to the loop of the SYN-2, should never be turned off.

The way you described the problems, it sounds like you have a programming issue in the Fractal for Scenes 1 & 3- if it was a cabling issue, its delay wouldn't work for Scene 2.

To use the Fractal to do the channel switching on both the TC-50 and the SYN-2, need to connect an additional MIDI cable between the "MIDI THRU" port on the SYN-2 and the "MIDI IN" on the back of the TC-50 (not the MESA FT. SW port), and find someone who owns a Fractal to help with the MIDI programming. The TC-50 manual on the Mesa website has a whole section on MIDI commands. You can do 6 things via MIDI: select the 3 channels, trun Reverb on/off, turn Solo on/off, and FX loop on/off (which should always be ON for 4CM).

I haven't gotten around to programming my own Line 6 HX FX to do MIDI switching for my TC-50, I'm still using the Mesa footswitch separately (awkwardly sitting next to my full pedal board). Good luck!