Why did not Randall and Bruce get it right

[blacksun]

Hi,

I'm been wondering why such a talented amp designer as Bruce and the Randall team couldn't produce modules really faithful to the preamps they were intended to model?

I'm not saying the egnater modules are bad, but e.g. compared to the salvation or the JF mods there is a huge difference.

Was the design of the original modules hampered by perhaps some kind of patent restraints not allowing for the original amp circuits?

 

[blacksun]

Thanks for the input, that was a possible reason I never thought of. If that might have been the limiting factor, with the larger batches made for Randall seems they could have used several circuit board templates since I guess they were after all machine assembled.

Seems the current synergy approach could have been taken years ago, right from the start.
If, however, the reason being risk of violating patented circuits, we might be still missing a great plexi or tweed in the synergy palette.

Just thinking out loud..

 

[withmittens]

the improvement is in the reconfiguration gizmo that is built into the box, according to Synergy.

Still want the Dirty Shirley, though. Imma pick that one up and hopefully I'll be able to use it in my RM4

 

[CrunchBunch]

...wondering why such a talented amp designer as Bruce and the Randall team couldn't produce modules really faithful to the preamps they were intended to model?

It's possible that was never the real over-riding intention. I've liked a number of stock modules and have modified many more, but never to completely replicate a brand 'X' amp. Bruce is no fool and he surely could have reproduced closer some of the amps that modules were produced for but he/Randall may also have wanted to put their own spin on things.

I think the real 'miss' with the MTS approach has been not developing modules that sound and feel unique (as opposed to replication). What we need as players is more tonal variety rather than 'perfect' copies of already existing amps. That would be a real drawcard for something like MTS or Synergy - unique tones and playing feel.

 

[Nightdare]

The answer is quite obvious:

"Money, dear boy"

 

[JKD]

...wondering why such a talented amp designer as Bruce and the Randall team couldn't produce modules really faithful to the preamps they were intended to model?

It's possible that was never the real over-riding intention. I've liked a number of stock modules and have modified many more, but never to completely replicate a brand 'X' amp. Bruce is no fool and he surely could have reproduced closer some of the amps that modules were produced for but he/Randall may also have wanted to put their own spin on things.

I think the real 'miss' with the MTS approach has been not developing modules that sound and feel unique (as opposed to replication). What we need as players is more tonal variety rather than 'perfect' copies of already existing amps. That would be a real drawcard for something like MTS or Synergy - unique tones and playing feel.

Maybe the signature stuff was too late to the game...

SuperV, Brahma, Mr Scary, Grail were almost perfect out of the box (production issues aside) and the KH1/KH3 also.

 

[sumis]

bruce got it right imho. randall didn't.

.

 

[webrthomson]

bruce got it right imho. randall didn't.

.

I pretty much agree with this! I like the majority of Bruce's modules, granted they are not 100% the same as the amp they are based on, but they all pretty much sound good.

With the exception of the SL+ and the 1086 I have disliked every stock Randall module I've tried.

 

[CrazyNutz]

The issue plan and simple IMHO, the stock modules were/are mediocre at best.

Randall should have developed a program, or a stimulus (so to speak) to support the modders like JF, Salvation, etc.. They could have provided raw/blank module boards, and module chassis to these guys at a discounted rate (including MTS licence cost if any), and also pushed the mods through their marketing channels.

As far as patent infringement, there really isn't much. You can only patent a circuit if it provides a truly unique and new useful function. The majority of the amp circuits we enjoy are not patented, or patent-able . The only thing that usually stands is copyright, trademarks, etc.. You can copyright art and PCB designs can fall under this category. So as long as you are not using the exact same PCB as a commercial amp, and not using same Logos, and names your good. However when it comes to logos, names and trademarks you need to make yours unique enough so that it isn't too similar, if it looks too close you could be opening yourself up for a lawsuit.

 

[CrunchBunch]

... They could have provided raw/blank module boards, and module chassis...

Yeah. Module boards would have been a great boost to the MTS eco-system. Take a look at what's going on with the 500 series modules in audio processing and you get an idea for what that might be like.

For guys like me, MTS is by far the easiest way to rapidly develop new amp sounds.

 

[webrthomson]

Randall should have developed a program, or a stimulus (so to speak) to support the modders like JF, Salvation, etc.. They could have provided raw/blank module boards, and module chassis to these guys at a discounted rate (including MTS licence cost if any), and also pushed the mods through their marketing channels

I've thought this for a while - effectively since the single channel platform is dead I did wonder if Bruce might open source the PCB's etc. so modders and the general public could fabricate them without infringing any IPR or other legal issues.

Would definitely give the whole thing a shot in the arm

 

[Mattfig]

Synergy has already turned this offer down for now....

 

[CrazyNutz]

Synergy has already turned this offer down for now....

Yes, I've seen that quoted somewhere. I think that is a big mistake IMO.

I like synergy's idea of official modules from amp builders, soldano, bogner, friedman, etc. I can look at the whole MTS system and see it was a down fall not having that, and it just goes hand in hand with the stock modules lacking.

But there Is a great resource of known and respected modders that could, and I'm sure would dive right in and start producing awesome mods right off the bat. Not to mention community driven projects, this thing could take off in a big way, yet it's stagnant and loosing momentum.

The other thing is the face plate art is great from the modders, that is a really nice touch, that is something I'm not sure synergy is factoring in.

 

[webrthomson]

Synergy has already turned this offer down for now....

Yes, I've seen that quoted somewhere. I think that is a big mistake IMO.

I like synergy's idea of official modules from amp builders, soldano, bogner, friedman, etc. I can look at the whole MTS system and see it was a down fall not having that, and it just goes hand in hand with the stock modules lacking.

But there Is a great resource of known and respected modders that could, and I'm sure would dive right in and start producing awesome mods right off the bat. Not to mention community driven projects, this thing could take off in a big way, yet it's stagnant and loosing momentum.

The other thing is the face plate art is great from the modders, that is a really nice touch, that is something I'm not sure synergy is factoring in.

Could not agree more with this, seems like a great shame to me! It's amazing what open sourcing the old stuff does to things like these in terms of community momentum

 

[Alexis]

XTC, JTM and SL+ were really good Modules. I think it was money that kept them short because they haven't sold many Amps and especially Modules

 

[djd100]

IMO MTS failed to to a lack of marketing and availability via the MI channel.

Way back when when I managed to first hear about MTS out here on the west coast there was nothing MTS available , so I had to build my own RM2 just to hear the MTS modules which I found used on EBAY.

There were Randall dealers on the west coast, but none of them carried anything MTS.

If MTS was only widely available in the mid-west then that's the recipe for failure right there (plus the fact that DSP modeling essentially improved to be able to compete with MTS to some degree as well).

Hopefully Synergy will be better represented on the west coast, and with the west coast OEM's involved that should be the case.