1086 gain question(s). Is it dead?

[Nigel T.]

After more than two months waiting I finally got my ordered RM4 with the accompanying modules (Deluxe, Top Boost, Plexi, 1086).

I tried all of them out, but I have a feeling that something is wrong with the 1086. When I turn the Gain to 0 it simply goes distortion to silence, no clean stages inbetween as you would expect with turning down the gain. Also when I switch the Gain Boost to +, all that happens is that the volume disappears completely with some gurgling sounds.

Is it a dud? Death on delivery? Or am I just a noob that doesn't know how to handle the Gain knob?

Thanks.

 

[wengnutt]

I had a somewhat similar problem when my 1086 arrived. First thing whenever you have problems with modules, check the preamp tubes. That's exactly what was wrong with mine. Replaced them, and it was good as new.

 

[Nigel T.]

Great...

The Rm-4 is on a loan from the Dutch importer as Randall is behind schedule (or something like that). I doubt that they want me to change tubes. But I'll inform them, and see if I get the approval.

 

[wengnutt]

Do you have any other modules? If so, you could borrow the tubes just to check and see if that's what the case is.

EDIT: I meant change the preamp tubes in the 1086, NOT the RM4. If your other modules are working fine, then it's most likely the case.

 

[Nigel T.]

Good idea, I'll exchange some tubes with another module. The other three work as expected, and I ruled out the RM-4 by simply exchanging the Top Boost and the 1086 in it. The Top Boost worked the same, as did the 1086.

Some 25 years ago was the last time I changed tubes on an amp... See if much has changed.

[edit]
B.t.w. I see that you have a 1086 as well. The Youtube clips I've seen weren't bull right? It should be possible to get a clean sound from it? I bought it for the high gain supersaturated overdrive sounds, but it would be nice to be able to go clean with it.
[/edit]

 

[wengnutt]

I've been able to get some moderately clean tones with it, but really no Fender type cleans. More like a Plexi/gritty clean. It's probably the most flexible module in stock form. If I remember correctly, when I was trying to get some clean sounds from it I turned down the bass and gain, boosted the mids slightly, and kept the treble around 1 o'clock with the mid shift and gain voicing off. I mainly use it for saturated tones as well though. The JTM and Blackface are my favorites for clean sounds now, but I really would like to try a SuperV.

 

[Nigel T.]

At least now I know it is be possible. I bought the Deluxe for clean stuff, but from what I saw on the net the 1086 should be able to do something that resembles clean. You never know exactly on the web what post production people do with it, so I asked you.

My simple setup is a Ceriatone Overtone HRM for normal use. And when I am doing heavier stuff I use the Randall, and I'd need to get the cleans from the Deluxe module. The Top Boost is more for classic rock stuff, the Plexi for hard rock/metal, and the 1086 when I really have to be hellbound (death, thrash, nu metal, etc.). But even the loudest over-saturated band has clean passages, so there has to be clean as well. So far I am more than happy with the stock versions of the Deluxe, Plexi and Top Boost. Now only the 1086 ...

 

[Nigel T.]

I think I know what my problem was. My guitar has too much output for the module. I have EMGs on all my guitars and this particular one (a Strat) has three SA-V pickups with a SPC and EXG.

I have a feeling that that is a bit too much for the module to swallow, because when I turned the Gain to 0, switched the Gain Boost to + and slowly turned the Gain up it did not die untill I came close to the 8 mark.

Turning the Gain to max and rolling off the guitar's volume showed me that clean-ish is possible with these pickups. Unfortunately I do not have a guitar with passives anymore to become sure of this suspicion.

The tubes are switched, and the Top Boost still works okay. They're both 12AX7s, so they should be the same. I 'll leave it this way, and see what tomorrow brings.

Thanks.

 

[guitarcomet]

Please pay no mind to this post. (The old man writing it is insane)

I use to have the idea that active was the way to go.
When Lace Sensor pickups came out, I laughed!
But one day (in 1995) I jammed with a guy (older, better player) that had a '88 PRS with SD SH-1 pickups in it.
He had the same amp as I did (Mesa Mk III Simul-Class) and I did everything I could to get as good a tone as he was getting (I loved it!).
I couldn't!
I asked him to play his PRS though my Mesa. There it was!
I have since gotten rid of all my active guitars/pickups except my Jackson.
I love the vintage sound you get from passive. Nothing else compares.

Now, go back to your discussion. Never mind me. :roll:

 

[Julia]

Please pay no mind to this post. (The old man writing it is insane)

:lol:

Pay no nevermind to this one too... just some crazy old bat writing it.

I've got a Deluxe module. It's clean IF I play my G&L Legacy, Mustang, or LP with the P90s, or roll the volume knob off on anything with humbuckers.

I've got a JAN 5751 in the V1 and a used UK Mullard 12AX7 in V2. I'm gonna try putting a NOS Mullard 12AT7 in V2 of the module just to see if I can get out of buying a KH1. I might try a JJ 12DW7 I have laying around first because it's here. That should cut tame it a bit more giving the gain knob more control at the lower side. I'm using on in my 5150 in V2 and it helps there, and I've got another.

 

[Zander]

I've had guitars with actives in them (EMGs). Well, actually, I still have a guitar with actives in it (ESP Viper 400). I've also had other guitars with EMGs in them and they sound fine for a while. But then after a time, I find myself finding this quality about them that I don't like. I perceive it almost as if all the water is coming out of a firehose as opposed to water coming over a waterfall.

The tone feels somehow "constrained".

I've also found that getting gain in the amounts desired seems entirely possible with passive pickups. I have to agree with guitarcomet that the tone and musicality of passives just seems more natural, more fluid.

Here's my current lineup of pickups:

Guitarforce "Erupter" 9.2k resistance
Guitarattack "Attackbucker" 7.2k resistance
Gibson Tony Iommi Signature Humbucker ??? resistance
Mighty Mite "Motherbucker" 22k resistance!
Duncan SH-5 Custom ??? resistance

With the exception of the Duncan, and other previous "brand-name" pickups I've owned (DiMarzio) I've made recent efforts to venture out into where I could find boutique pickups for reasonable prices.

* I got the Attackbucker directly from guitarattack.com. I went in with a friend and ordered 4 of them so I only paid about $85.00 per pickup. I don't know how a 7.2k resistance pickup is as loud as this one is, but it's fantastic. I have a spare I don't know why I'm holding onto, but at the same time, can't justify giving up.
* Guitarforce Erupter - I'm still sourcing and assembling the guitar to put this one into so I can't report on it. $75.00 on Ebay (special)
* Iommi Bucker - Found this on eBay for $55.00. With a treble booster into a good tube amp, it sounds like an anvil being struck by a piledriver. Great sounding "chirp" on the pick attack of the note. (I love that sound!)
* Motherbucker. $45.00 on eBay for both the Neck and the Bridge. This is actually an incredible sounding pair. Loud, and ballsy without actually being nothing but mud. This is a really really great pickup for the price. Possibly my favorite pickup because it is so musical
* Duncan Custom. Sounds like a Seymour Duncan. Sounds like the Screaming Demon in the Lynch Kamikaze I used to own. Sounds like the Duncan Distortion in an old Kramer I used to own. Of course, they all sound a little different, but I feel like there's a "honk" common to all Duncans. (...I also feel there's a "sizzle" common to just about all DiMarzios...) I found that I like the Custom better than the Distortion or Screaming Demon I owned. More ballsy, actually.

And come to think of it, I've even considered giving those (cheap?) guitarfetish.com pickups a try. The Retrotrons, VEH's, and Loudmouth/Bigmouth look interesting. I also find myself interested in trying out the Guitarforce Spitfire and Superstar. WCRs and Motor City look great too, but I find it REALLY hard to justify $300 for a pair of pickups.

 

[Julia]

My current lineup of pickups:

Duncan AHB-1 Blackout (ESP Alexi) - real smooth for high gain, but tends to overdrive lower gain modules way too much even rolled back. This is the metal beast.

Gibson P90s (Epiphone Les Paul Special w/ set neck) - these puppies are angry single coils like P90s should be. I was going to put these in my SG, but they're $218/pr new, or about $140 pr used, and add in routing and rewiring..... so I found this Epi with them in it for $370 new.... no brainer.

Gibson 498T/490R -- SG Standard. Typical Gibby pickups.

Whatever Singles came in the Fender Mustang. With a treble booster, these are really nice.

Duncan JB/59 -- very nice set in the C-1 Hellraiser. The JB has a nice 80s grind to it.

G&L pickups in my Legacy. Well this is Leo's final evolution of the Stratocaster so there you go. With a treble boost + the SL+ does Trower.

But like I said, don't listen to this crazy old bat. She who plays single coils most of the time.....

 

[Nigel T.]

I know that everybody is trying to help, and I thank you for that, but why is it that as soon as the code word EMG is mentioned all people are going to push other pick-ups... I am perfectly happy with my EMGs, if I were not I would have changed them. I also cannot believe that EMG and Randall isn't a match made in heaven as I highly doubt that I am the only guitar player doing EMG/Randall.

The information about the tubes is interesting and I will be checking them out when I feel the need to change them. One question about that though: in my eyes a 12AX7 is a 12AX7, so either JJ or EH or whatever amounts to the same. Am I correct in that? Or far off the playing field? The stock Top Boost came with EH, the 1086 with JJs.

Let me reiterate, I bought the 1086 for the extreme gain stuff. I only had seen some clips on Youtube showing me clean sounds. Even though I am going to have it distort beyond belief, I want to know the thing is a-okay and able to do clean as well. The Deluxe is the module to turn to for the clean sounds and on that I have the Gain barely open, just enough so there is sound. Level on max, and the rest is done through the Nova system in the Send<>Return.

And just for completeness as everyone was mentioning the pickups. Mine are as follows:

Les Paul - EMG 85, EMG 60
Strat - 3 x EMG SA-V, SPC, EXG
Explorer - EMG 81-X, EMG 85-X
Hand built Super-Strat - EMG 89, 2 x EMG SLV

On it I play everything ranging from soft-sweet Singer/Songwriter pop to Extreme Metal. And once again... I am happy with the way they sound, so I am not in the market to replace them.

 

[Nightdare]

Just an FYI Nigel

I am in Holland as well, I also received a loan unit, but if you still have that loaner,
keep nagging them for the unit you ordered

It took me 7 months and a mail to Randall USA before the buggers finally shipped me mine
wether this was BMI or the shop I ordered it I'll leave in the middle

 

[Nigel T.]

7 months!!!!!!!!! Holy !@^*&^!*#&^!#*&^!.... That's a bloody long time!

Currently I am counting some two months as I ordered in the end of August. After a month and a half I walked into my dealer and asked the status, got the reply that they and BMI didn't get an answer so emailed them (US Music Corp.) themselves.

It seems the latest status is that they are waiting on faceplates for the RM-4, and that it is ready to be shipped off to a happy home near my guitars but I'll believe that when it is finally rack-bound.

From what I got as answers I believe the fault is mostly Randall's as they are behind schedule, and once behind it is difficult to catch up. Just check the Dutch train system :lol:

P.S.: Where are you? I am in Amsterdam.

 

[harsh]

Nigel, I have EMG actives in most of my guitars, and you are right in assuming they are the culprit as far as not getting a clean sound in concerned. The best I can do with EMG's is a low gain crunch. However, at the same setting, if I plug in my Jackson with passive Seymour Duncans into the 1086, I get a nice clean sound.

If you need pristine cleans from EMG's you need to get the Salvation Loneclean. He's changed the clipping to accomodate active pickups. Any other module, you might have to roll back the volume on the guitar till you are happy with the tone. Thats what I do (I dont play much clean anyway so its not too important for me).

And yes, swap out the 1086's tubes with another one and see what happens. That should fix it 90% of the time.

Hope this helps.

 

[Nightdare]

7 months!!!!!!!!! Holy !@^*&^!*#&^!#*&^!.... That's a bloody long time!

Currently I am counting some two months as I ordered in the end of August. After a month and a half I walked into my dealer and asked the status, got the reply that they and BMI didn't get an answer so emailed them (US Music Corp.) themselves.

It seems the latest status is that they are waiting on faceplates for the RM-4, and that it is ready to be shipped off to a happy home near my guitars but I'll believe that when it is finally rack-bound.

From what I got as answers I believe the fault is mostly Randall's as they are behind schedule, and once behind it is difficult to catch up. Just check the Dutch train system :lol:

P.S.: Where are you? I am in Amsterdam.

Ahh so this time it's the faceplates, it were the pcb's when waiting for mine :roll:


BTW I'm in Delft

 

[Nigel T.]

Thanks harsh,

It was a conclusion I had drawn as well. I use the Deluxe as "my clean machine", and that with the Gain barely open is clean. I just wanted to make sure it wasn't dead on arrival.

If you need pristine cleans from EMG's you need to get the Salvation Loneclean. He's changed the clipping to accomodate active pickups. Any other module, you might have to roll back the volume on the guitar till you are happy with the tone. Thats what I do (I dont play much clean anyway so its not too important for me).

I play clean about 60 % of the time. It depends on whether I need to go in Full Combat mode whether I take the RM4 or not. If not, then the Ceriatone is a percect clean and the overdrive on it (accompanied with a Keeley modded TS-808) is enough. The RM4 has to go to the Hard Rock/Metal gigs, and then I use the Deluxe for my cleans.

 

[Julia]

I hit Deluxe heaven for my clean.... Mullard (real one) 12AX7 in V1 and a Telefunken 12AX7 (smooth plate) in V2. That was with P90s. Today the Legacy comes out.

 

[Nigel T.]

7 months!!!!!!!!! Holy !@^*&^!*#&^!#*&^!.... That's a bloody long time!

Currently I am counting some two months as I ordered in the end of August. After a month and a half I walked into my dealer and asked the status, got the reply that they and BMI didn't get an answer so emailed them (US Music Corp.) themselves.

It seems the latest status is that they are waiting on faceplates for the RM-4, and that it is ready to be shipped off to a happy home near my guitars but I'll believe that when it is finally rack-bound.

From what I got as answers I believe the fault is mostly Randall's as they are behind schedule, and once behind it is difficult to catch up. Just check the Dutch train system :lol:

P.S.: Where are you? I am in Amsterdam.

Ahh so this time it's the faceplates, it were the pcb's when waiting for mine :roll:


BTW I'm in Delft

Just got the final call... Tomorrow I can retrieve my own RM-4. No more loaner.