Are MTSers afraid of MIDI and switchers?

[MarcoR]

Just an observation. I often see posts on "how can I run an RM4/M4 with my RM* and use every module" or "how can I use effect X with my RM*" etc.

Many times when I see these posts I may respond with a suggestion of switchers, mixers, midi implementation or all of the above. But I get the sense that many MTS users don't want to deal with the extra gear or hassle. Is that right?

It just seems that being a users of a Modular Tube Pre-amp System you are already thinking beyond the norm and basic configurations. Still, I see many post about using some sort of all-in-one multi-effect processor.

This seems counter intuitive to me if you've decided on an amp system that allows you to swap out the core part of your tone but limited yourself to effects that are a compromise at best albeit convenient.

Any thoughts? I know some of you have or have had elaborate rigs but what about the rest?

 

[Mattfig]

I think a lot of MTS users don't want any further hassle from extra gear and hookups...I get what you are saying and personally have a rig where I use a GCX/GCP and a bunch of FX and such via MIDI...But my others are kept simple as changing mods and tubes is enough...I don't want to worry about if someone switched MIDI channels on a device or if something goes wrong there...Too many variables for most circumstances methinks...

 

[audiomidijace]

In my experience "most" guitar players don't speak MIDI or understand signal flow.
I managed one guitar store and owned another guitar store and I've been in the industry since '92.
I would say that about 10% of guitar players have any experience with MIDI or any kind of expanded amp system.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to look down on the 90%! There is NOTHING wrong with a guy that plugs a Les Paul straight in to a Marshall and rocks the house!
When I was an MTS dealer, I sold 65% heads, 25% combos and 10% rack. Just because someone finds the idea of modular preamps to be attractive, doesn't mean that they desire a more technical and elaborate amp system.

 

[eyeball987]

"Hi. My name is Eyeball and I am a midiot."

I have never fooled with midi in my 20+ years of playing and gigging and don't think I will jump in now.

 

[warlok]

I'm also very much a midiot.. This was the first time I even looked into what it is. And only because my pedals didn't work right in the loops. Honestly, I got it figured out with my RM100, Intellifex, and FCB1010 so I can hit one button, have my tone, and play and I really don't want more complexity than that. I think I'm pretty much in the majority of how far I'm getting into it.. Actually, soon as I get my amps back together (waiting on foglifters) I'm gonna take the midi out of the equation and go back to the 3 button switch. As every time I turn on my RM100 rig, the routine is:
RM100 power>Intellifex power>Tuner power>FCB power>Intellifex bypass switch.. lol

 

[Jaded Faith]

I could go into serious detail about this topic based on customer interaction and personal experience, but I'd write a novel. We can discuss over beers next time we cross paths again (which was a great last time).

In short, very few want to deal with it and fewer more in depth.

 

[audiomidijace]

Tonights bar room conversation topics include:
Program changes
Controller values
Channels
MIDI Beat Clock
MTC ( MIDI Time Code)
MMC (MIDI Machine Control)
MIDI Command String Data
5 & 7 pin MIDI cables
MIDI over USB
MIDI over Ethernet
In, Out and Thru
And finally, why Monster MIDI cables are 5X more expensive!

 

[guitarzan]

MIDI is one of the reasons I got into MTS> I hate tap dancing. Just plug in my midi pedal and give me some presets.

 

[Graham Pearson]

I know a lot of RM4 owners couple their rigs with a GSP-1101 and a Control 2 foot pedal. I have an older GSP-2101 with a Control One. In any case, you can patch a MIDI cable from the MIDI Out of the effects unit to the MIDI In of the RM4.

If you bother to read a couple of paragraphs in the effects user manual, you'll find it's easy to use MIDI to select any of the 4 modules in your RM4 while loading an effects program, all with the press of a single foot pedal.

You can house your RM4 and your effects unit in the same rack case together with a power strip and now you have a very quick setup. The point here is that a single MIDI link can simplify your whole rig.

 

[Hamner1]

I don't mind midi, but at the same time I don't use it to its full potential. But I have always loved that I could put a preamp, MFX unit, & a poweramp & with one button I can have a different preamp tone & effects setting.

 

[Nightdare]

Tonights bar room conversation topics include:
MIDI Beat Clock
MTC ( MIDI Time Code)
MMC (MIDI Machine Control)
MIDI Command String Data
And finally, why Monster MIDI cables are 5X more expensive!

These are the things I'm not familiar with
But then again most isn't needed in a guitar setup
normally program changes is all you need, perhaps here and there some continuous controller value for on/off/swells/slides within a program, and you're done

And hooking up is a lot easier than thought, I'll take a complex midi-setup over wiring a 5-way superswitch any day

 

[MarcoR]

Great responses guys! I'm glad to see there are a few that see midi as a way to simplify your rig rather than make it more complex.

I must confess that in 25 years of using midi, it wasn't until until recently that I started using Control Change commands and having everything on its own midi channel. By limiting myself to program changes I ended up having a lot of presets that were very similar and then I would have to map everything. Now that I'm using more CC commands, I find that I'm only dealing with a handful of presets and I can just change parameters when needed. This works great for the Eventide effects for example that don't have instantaneous preset changes.

Fun stuff...

 

[m0jo]

I've used midi for a long time. My setup time went from 20 minutes to just a few and chancing to completely different sounds takes .. one tap.

The Gordius Little Giant is my secret weapon. If you're serious about having a powerfull rig you guys should really check it out.

One thing I have noticed is that while it hugely simplifies a "constant" setup for gigging, it is a bit restricting when jamming. But that is also down to how much current multi effects suck compared to the potential. I'm a tech junkie, so looking at the progress we've made in tech I think it's ridiculous that we're still using a cabled standard from the 80s instead of wifi or such ... think about it, your rig should connect to the internet, be auto updating with new coolness, allowing open source development of new effects, easy control from any other device you own (being an Apple or Android junky or a regular PC) ... this stuff isn't hard, every other field is doing it, and what do we have? A few apps and the Digitech IBP10, which is nothing but a step in the right general direction.

I'm waiting for the Android of guitar rigs to rise, if it doesn't come soon my hobby of drawing up new gear might need to get serious.

 

[Nightdare]

I'm a tech junkie, so looking at the progress we've made in tech I think it's ridiculous that we're still using a cabled standard from the 80s instead of wifi or such ... think about it, your rig should connect to the internet, be auto updating with new coolness, allowing open source development of new effects, easy control from any other device you own (being an Apple or Android junky or a regular PC) ... this stuff isn't hard

Now now, give the MIDI-protocol a little more credit
it's actually very elaborate and still very efficient today
It's fully customizable, has less bandwith issues and doesn't need a course in computer software

I don't know about you but when I look at the synth market (and some FX proccessors are going that direction as well) that USB port basically becomes an anchor attached to a computer
where they're actually decreasing any possibilities on the front panel and have to resort to 'deep-editting' with either a PC, laptop or PDA
MI-FI i slowly showing up, but still very error-prone

 

[drewiv]

I used it and appreciated it. I find guitar -> amp -> cab to be the simplest. Even a small pedal board consisting of boost up front and delay and/or chorus in the loop to be easier than dragging a rack around. Sure, a hellavu lot more you can do with MIDI, but I find I'm so crappy it doesn't help my cause.

 

[m0jo]

I'm a tech junkie, so looking at the progress we've made in tech I think it's ridiculous that we're still using a cabled standard from the 80s instead of wifi or such ... think about it, your rig should connect to the internet, be auto updating with new coolness, allowing open source development of new effects, easy control from any other device you own (being an Apple or Android junky or a regular PC) ... this stuff isn't hard

Now now, give the MIDI-protocol a little more credit
it's actually very elaborate and still very efficient today
It's fully customizable, has less bandwith issues and doesn't need a course in computer software

I don't know about you but when I look at the synth market (and some FX proccessors are going that direction as well) that USB port basically becomes an anchor attached to a computer
where they're actually decreasing any possibilities on the front panel and have to resort to 'deep-editting' with either a PC, laptop or PDA
MI-FI i slowly showing up, but still very error-prone

It wasn't meant as a jab towards midi, it's great. But there's lots of potential. MI-FI is way overdue..

I wasn't just talking about connectivity by the way .. why does my POD HD have a 200x150 (or something) pixel single color screen and gameboy graphics while I have 1280x720 full colour HD screen in my pocket? Why not a touchscreen? Why not more openness? (even older devices, they could release the source for the GSP1101 and people would create *ROCKING* things with it..). Why not shared standards between manufacturers/platforms (buy software effects and use them on your POD or AxeFX or pedal of choice) ? Why can't I and other much better programmers work on our own effects in our free time and share them? (like apps)

At some point, someone is going to create something compelling (let's call them "the Apple of guitar gear") and all other manufacturers will be scrambling to suddenly be with the pace. (just see Digitech's copy of the TC Ditto to see what I mean)

 

[m0jo]

Oh and another thing I just thought of: your settings saving automatically to the cloud, allowing you to keep multiple rigs synced perfectly and never lose your settings if something's up with your gear!

I can basically pick up any HTC Android phone and be up and running with my apps, accounts, wifi settings etc in half an hour (just waiting for it to download and set everything up, no effort required after logging in). Have you ever tried backing up your effects presets?

anyway, sorry for hijacking the thread, carry on!

 

[Nightdare]

Well, I don't know
Many of those shiny new Rolands synths with touchpads and USB connections
are the same old waveforms + enormous pricehike
And I don't have to tell you that most 'players' do not are about programming, open source/B(uild)YOFX, in that market, we're pretty lucky MIDI made it in

 

[MarcoR]

I was thinking I'd post a thread about why more MTS users are not taking advantage of midi for controlling their gear and remembered I already posted this over a year ago!

 

[JKD]

Never saw this thread the first time round...it's devastatingly simple to do MIDI switching setup...just a switcher and a foot controller.

Hardest part is keeping the cabling neat.