Are MTSers afraid of MIDI and switchers?

[MarcoR]

The GCX also need a buffer mod to be more transparent from what I hear.
.

Do you have any experience with this one?
I'm looking to do the same thing here as withmittens but with my 5153 and instead of the pedals I use the Rocktron Replifex infront (same as pedals I guess) and an Intellifex after the RM4 going into the loop of the 5153.
The thing I didn't like about the GCX is that it doesn't do patches, you need the MIDI foot controller to acivate its loops in different combinations to create the patches, in patches, Is this correct?

I?m not sure I?m clear on the question. Do you have a midi controller that you use with the GCX?

Some midi controllers only send PC (Program Change) messages; with those, you would only be able to switch presets. The Randall and Egnater MTS midi controllers are this type. You need a controller that also sends CC (Control Change) messages for configuring switches to control a specific loop (referred to as instant access switches).

A common scenario is having a midi controller pedal that has two rows of switches; the bottom row of switches are your most used presets and the top row of switched are configured for instant access.

When you say patches, are you referring to presets or instant access switches?

 

[suphuckers]

The GCX and most the other switcher/routers mentioned so far have the loops set up in serial.

The Sound Sculpture products allow you to program the path internally so you can run in series, parallel, series/parallel and even change the order or the effects.

You can still run your effect in parallel with the other switcher by adding a mini mixer. I use the RJM mini mixer for this.

Yeah See, So (for me)... that thing wouldn't work. Having your effects in series really changes the way they sound. My Pedal has the option to run chan 3/4 in series OR parallel. 3=>4 or 4=>3 or 3==4. So I always have that option if I want it. I have found that I pretty much never want more than 2 time based effects in series anyways. Usually always zero in series and everything parallel. Once in a while I run a phase effect into a delay. That's a pretty interesting effect sometimes.

Anyways, Thanks for adding to my wish list Marco. Now I gotta buy a SwitchBlade :/ heh

For now for $250 I'll stick with what I have.

Edit: My pedal is kinda like that lopperparadise pedal Marco. Except it only has 4 loops, and it's all analog. No display. It's a very similar concept. ...and much cheaper

 

[MarcoR]

The GCX and most the other switcher/routers mentioned so far have the loops set up in serial.

The Sound Sculpture products allow you to program the path internally so you can run in series, parallel, series/parallel and even change the order or the effects.

You can still run your effect in parallel with the other switcher by adding a mini mixer. I use the RJM mini mixer for this.

Yeah See, So (for me)... that thing wouldn't work. Having your effects in series really changes the way they sound. My Pedal has the option to run chan 3/4 in series OR parallel. 3=>4 or 4=>3 or 3==4. So I always have that option if I want it. I have found that I pretty much never want more than 2 time based effects in series anyways. Usually always zero in series and everything parallel. Once in a while I run a phase effect into a delay. That's a pretty interesting effect sometimes.

Anyways, Thanks for adding to my wish list Marco. Now I gotta buy a SwitchBlade :/ heh

For now for $250 I'll stick with what I have.

Edit: My pedal is kinda like that lopperparadise pedal Marco. Except it only has 4 loops, and it's all analog. No display. It's a very similar concept.

Like I said, you can still do parallel but you need a mini line mixer. Check this diagram:
http://www.rjmmusic.com/wiring/EG/EG_8Pedals_2Parallel.pdf

Edit: here's another one using the mini effect gizmo:
http://www.rjmmusic.com/wiring/MEG/MEG 2 series 3 parallel.pdf

 

[suphuckers]

Basically that's what my pedal does, but the mixer is built in. Here's a link.

http://woundedpaw.com/fx/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=2&products_id=13

You gotta buy all this though right?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/RJM-MUSIC-M...769?pt=Guitar_Accessories&hash=item43d3d9cf39

 

[MarcoR]

Basically that's what my pedal does. Here's a link.

http://woundedpaw.com/fx/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=2&products_id=13

That looks like an awesome box but we are talking about midi soulutions. :wink:

Actually, if that uses relays and the switches are momentary type, and if you were willing to tap the momentary switches (modding the unit), you could control that with midi too using a RJM Switch gizmo.
http://www.rjmmusic.com/switchgizmo.php
I have a solution for everybody!

 

[suphuckers]

That looks like an awesome box but we are talking about midi soulutions. :wink:

Well I thought we were talking about mts users being afraid of midi or not. Im just saying Im personally not afraid, but unless you can show me something that can do what that little pedal can do.. for less then twice the price. I'll stick with the analog

Edit: This is cool stuff though Marco. I'm actually getting something out of a thread around here for a change These are exciting times we live in my friend.

Also unfortunately for your Midi suggestion, it uses latching type true bypass switching just like pedals

 

[j4q0]

Do you have a midi controller that you use with the GCX?

Some midi controllers only send PC (Program Change) messages; with those, you would only be able to switch presets. The Randall and Egnater MTS midi controllers are this type. You need a controller that also sends CC (Control Change) messages for configuring switches to control a specific loop (referred to as instant access switches).

Yes I have a MIDI mate, which works perfectly though it only has 1 row of 5 IA buttons, which I already use for FX loop on/off, delay, mods, rev. The bottom row I use as preset selection.
If using the GCX with the MIDI mate I would have to give up these IA on the FX midi controlled unit (Rocktrons) to favor the on/off state of the loops in the GCX, thus the patches would effectively be created through the on/off state of the IA buttons in the MIDI foot controller. Is this correct?

That was my question better worded I guess

Is there a switcher/looper that can store the state of its loops without the MIDI foot controller telling it to change that state?
Do the Rocktron Patchmate or the GRX4 do this?
If not, I will inevitably have to get a bigger foot controller to have dedicated IA buttons for each loop?

When you say patches, are you referring to presets or instant access switches?

I'm referring to patches within the switcher/looper itself, as in a MIDI program location which stores the state of each loop.

 

[MarcoR]

Yes I have a MIDI mate, which works perfectly though it only has 1 row of 5 IA buttons, which I already use for FX loop on/off, delay, mods, rev. The bottom row I use as preset selection.
If using the GCX with the MIDI mate I would have to give up these IA on the FX midi controlled unit (Rocktrons) to favor the on/off state of the loops in the GCX, thus the patches would effectively be created through the on/off state of the IA buttons in the MIDI foot controller. Is this correct?

That was my question better worded I guess

I wish I had some experience with the GCX to help you but in quickly looking through the manual it just said "For detailed information on programming, saving, and recalling Ground Control presets, please refer to the Ground Control User's Guide". So I'm not sure you'll get the same functionality with the Midi Mate. I understand not wanting to give up the IAs you already have dedicated to your other effects.

Is there a switcher/looper that can store the state of its loops without the MIDI foot controller telling it to change that state?
Do the Rocktron Patchmate or the GRX4 do this?
If not, I will inevitably have to get a bigger foot controller to have dedicated IA buttons for each loop?
.

The GRX4 does that and it programs just like the RM4; just select the loops you want on and hold the save. I believe the Rocktron Patchmate work like that as well.

 

[j4q0]

That what I understood after reading both manuals.
Seems the Patchmate or the GRX4 would be a better option

That for sure is great help.
I'll keep my eye open for one of those.

Thanks for the help!

 

[MarcoR]

That what I understood after reading both manuals.
Seems the Patchmate or the GRX4 would be a better option

That for sure is great help.
I'll keep my eye open for one of those.

Thanks for the help!

I posted this in the other thread:

FYI, there is a Axess GRX4 (like the one in my diagram) for sale on RigTalk:

http://www.rig-talk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=162917

Don't know the seller but $150 is a good price for one in that good of condition. The 4th loop on it can be configured to do momentary or latch switching so you could use it to change channels on the RM50 eliminating the need for the RM50 footswitch and provide midi switching capability.

 

[Corium_AZ]

I use an analog pedal that has 4 parallel effects loops. It has blend knobs and stomp switches for each loop. It has options for what happens when you turn off the loops. So you can have it trail the return, you can have it mute the return, or you can have it send a dry signal when you turn each of the loops off. I run it in the parallel loop. So it's like I have a master parallel loop with 4 sub parallel loops built into it. It's not as versatile as midi, but for time based effects it's pretty awesome. It 100% does not mess with my tone. I put my other rack effects like the EQ and etc in the series loop. I put multiple pedals in each loop that are similar... like for example a reverb. I have several reverbs in that "Reverb loop". I also have a pedal that I made myself that allows me to run one expression pedal to multiple effects. So I just don't see a need for midi. I'm not afraid of it, but until someone can show me how I can do all this easier or better with midi (That doesn't cost me $5000). I'll stick with the analog.

I mean I know midi lets you press 1 button to change 10 things but... how often to any of us really do that?

Similar to Marco's remark, I do lead vocals & rhythm guitar in my band. There is no plausible way I could deal with all the switching & tap dancing and play & sing at the same time - just too much **** to juggle. So, midi is an absolute must for me. My main clean tone is thru my vybe deluxe, with a compressor, delay & reverb out front, my Lo gain tones are primarily my vybe deluxe with an OD & reverb, mid gain dry thru my 50R sometimes also with an OD & hi gain dry thru my blackout mod. So, when going from clean to any other tone would require at least two to three 'taps' with any kind of analog switching. With my used $125 Vox Tonelab, I have all my FX, OD's, Fuzz, etc, in myriad configurations, and channel switching using the midi out - all with one tap... It also has it's own fx loop, where I put my analog pedals (just a Tube King OD & Basic Audio Gnarly fuzz - also programmed to switch in & out on any patch. Now, I can't put anything from the tonelab in my loop, but I had an eventide h9 stored away in my head, also midi controllable, to insert anything there. I now have a GSP1101 stored away in my head to do the same - plus I get it's OD's, FX, preamp models, etc...

So, even if I kept the H9 or decide to keep the GSP in the loop, I've spent no more than $450 for my FX/switching setup - and it's infinitely versatile & all easily accessed/programmed so I never have to tap more than one switch to go from any tone to another. 4 banks of 4 presets pretty much covers anything I'd ever want. Can't beat it, and there is no other plausible way to do it short of a dedicated guitar tech doing my switching for me (hoping for that day! Lol).

 

[Corium_AZ]

Oh, and before anyone scoffs - that Tonelab is a fantastic unit! I've run thru massive amounts of boutique & vintage & other great pedals & processors - mostly my lead guitarists stuff - he's got mountains of awesome gear with a very high turnover rate, lol. So, I've had the occasion to compare the tonelab's FX/OD 'models' to most of the 'real' things. The tonelab nails them or even sounds a bit better. Especially the Klon & TS808 OD's - they're as good as any standalone OD I've ever tried!

It's built like a tank, sends patch change & control change midi messages, has a very good expression pedal/vox wah, and the fx are top notch. And, can be had used for like $150.

So, I highly recommend folks at least try one, if not for your fx, but even just as a midi controller. It is completely transparent when bypassed, and you at least get a tuner, lol. It'll do what most dedicated stand alone midi controller will do, and you get the added benefit of some great fx out front if you ever wanted to use them!

 

[Corium_AZ]

Basically that's what my pedal does, but the mixer is built in. Here's a link.

http://woundedpaw.com/fx/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=2&products_id=13

You gotta buy all this though right?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/RJM-MUSIC-M...769?pt=Guitar_Accessories&hash=item43d3d9cf39

That switcher is pretty cool! If it also had a midi out, it'd be pretty tempting for me. But, alas, it won't switch my RM's channels, so it'd be useless to me...

 

[suphuckers]

Yeah I dunno, maybe you guys use way more effects than I do. I mean I Looove effects but... I pretty much use the same plate reverb for everything. I mean if I were playing something specific that needed a big hall verb or something, I could just put that 2nd verb in the loop and switch between them. I have a couple dif verb pedals, and a couple dif delays and etc, but I cant imagine where I'd use more then one of each at a time in any given song. The same goes for the delay. Like I said sometimes I run a phaser into a delay in series, but all I have to do is set the switch to series and it'll turn that loop off/on (both effects) at the same time. Sometimes I think it would be nice to have a midi EQ. I use an old Rane EQ that Ive had since forever. I could set it up so I can swap between left and right chans if I needed/wanted to for a particular song, but really I pretty much set the EQ and compensate between the tone settings in each channel on the Modules. I dunno. I mean I'm not saying I wouldn't like it and/or use it... I just think it's a huge investment and effort just to turn my phaser or delay on and off LoL Plus I don't like the idea of my signal going into this switcher and then through that mixer and blah blah. I have one box, 4 loops, and I like the tone I get with it. A setup like I was looking at in Marco's diagram, would probably double/triple the cables in my effects loops. ...and I wouldn't be happy with a series setup either, so I'd have to do all that mixer nonsense. That being said, since I doubt I could deal with mixers and etc all over the place, I'd probably have to invest well over $2000 to be happy with it. I better stop talking about it or I might start shopping haha

 

[suphuckers]

Look what I found.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Decibel-Ele...505?pt=Guitar_Accessories&hash=item5414b35f39

Basically very close to the pedal I have but it's Midi.

 

[Corium_AZ]

Look what I found.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Decibel-Ele...505?pt=Guitar_Accessories&hash=item5414b35f39

Basically very close to the pedal I have but it's Midi.

Yeah, I've seen this before. If I had more standalone analog pedals, one of these would be the ticket. Not sure if it does the whole series/parallel switching deal though?

 

[suphuckers]

yup it has series parallel switches, as well as switches to change the order of the loops right on the top of it. I might actually get one of these. I need to do some more research though 1st.

 

[mfgobbi]

This is a kick *** do it all inexpensive product.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQ_867568eU

 

[suphuckers]

This is a kick *** do it all inexpensive product.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQ_867568eU

Looks cool but I'm not seeing the series/parallel options on that. (and I dont have an hr to watch this entire video to find out that it doesn't have parallel loops LoL)

 

[withmittens]

Whoa, whoa....I got behind here

that is a lot of input to digest and I need to read it again but I can say a couple of things after first read

1. $600 is too much for me to spend on this
2. The RM50 has no midi so will need to be switched via an analog switch, possible triggered by midi the main midi thinger?
2. I've been looking at this piece. but I'm not sure if it does everything. I mean i know it will take care of my RM4 switching needs but maybe not the pedal patches....http://www.ebay.com/itm/171570181739?_trksid=p2060778.m1438.l2661&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
3. nothing goes in my loop except the RM4. all pedals are pre input

sorry if I've taken us back a bit, as I said, this is new to me and I need to go back and re-read everything. thanks for the great info