Boutique amp builder mods?

[Daryl]

regardless of what you do with the tranny's.

Hope that helps,
Rob

You should leave the poor guy's personal life out of this...

Sorry, couldn't resist... 8)

Oh Snap!!! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[Kapo_Polenton]

Hey guys, let's not forget that Rob could probably get quite close to whatever mod you are looking for but for the fact that he can't exactly afford an ENGL, a SPLAWN, a CORNFORD etc.. to benchmark against. Most circuits are an adaptation or take on a classic circuit but if you want them to be accurate to the mods, you need to A/B them against the real thing. I'm finally learning that "ballpark" is good enough. When you actually start adding effects and enjoy playing with a tone that is inspiring, who cares if it isn't quite a plexi or a high gainer. The fact that there is a lot of cross over between modules is proof that you can make just about anything work if it feels right. I bet Lynch wishes he had some of the amp choices he has today back 20+ years ago!

 

[m0jo]

With the modders being small businessmen themselves, they understand how other people stepping on their toes would feel, and would much rather avoid taking money out of their pockets.

Not to insinuate that modders have no conscience or morals, but I would tend to doubt that the modders haven't released such a module solely out of the kindness of their hearts. I would be more inclined to think that having to first acquire these amps, and their ~$4K price tags probably has more to do with it than anything . . .

Actually, in the case of Splawn that is exactly the reason why Anthony doesn't offer that mod. It's not that hard to borrow an amp for the duration of R&D. He has done a Splawn for himself and a friend I think, but decided against it because it is not really fair.

 

[rhequiem]

Joris, I can totally understand Anthony's thinking on this. However, given that the MTS line has never really reached mainstream popularity; coupled with the fact that it's effectively discontinued, how much would making mts modules for some of these amps really affect those builder's incomes? I can't imagine that many of us here, given that we are already bought in to the mts system, would be actively running around buying Splawns, Two Rocks, /13, etc - so not making a module that replicates any of those doesn't seem like it would cost them any sales. I can totally understand if it's an ethical and respect issue for fellow amp builders and modders, but as far as it affecting their profits much, I just wouldn't imagine it would make much difference.

 

[m0jo]

Joris, I can totally understand Anthony's thinking on this. However, given that the MTS line has never really reached mainstream popularity; coupled with the fact that it's effectively discontinued, how much would making mts modules for some of these amps really affect those builder's incomes? I can't imagine that many of us here, given that we are already bought in to the mts system, would be actively running around buying Splawns, Two Rocks, /13, etc - so not making a module that replicates any of those doesn't seem like it would cost them any sales. I can totally understand if it's an ethical and respect issue for fellow amp builders and modders, but as far as it affecting their profits much, I just wouldn't imagine it would make much difference.

To some degree your are definitly right. MTS is bigger than you might think though, I mean there are people all over the world using it and Salvation has a lot of customers. It probably wouldn't make a real dent in say Splawns profits, but yeah it's a little bit of respect, and for these "small" guys a small drop in earnings can mean a lot.

 

[Mike P]

but if you want them to be accurate to the mods, you need to A/B them against the real thing.

I don't agree with this statement. An electrical engineer with amplifier experience should be able to adapt a circuit for the MTS and get it pretty much dead on without a physical amp sitting next to it for comparison.

I'm finally learning that "ballpark" is good enough. When you actually start adding effects and enjoy playing with a tone that is inspiring, who cares if it isn't quite a plexi or a high gainer.

I'm not sure which modules you're referring to but all of the modules I own sound within 1% of the amps they're designed after. And in most cases, it's less than 1%.

The fact that there is a lot of cross over between modules is proof that you can make just about anything work if it feels right.

That "crossover" you speak of is greatly exaggerated when a microphone is placed in front of a speaker. If you're just jamming in your bedroom, the differences aren't as subtle but there are definitely differences.

I bet Lynch wishes he had some of the amp choices he has today back 20+ years ago!

Lynch and everyone else had plenty of amp choices in the 80's. There were guys modding Marshall's all over town from Jerry at Amp Crazy to Lee Jackson to Red Rhodes to Paul Rivera and on and on.

I realize there's a lot of love for George Lynch in this forum but IMO, he hasn't done himself any favors since the Wicked Sensation record. Everything since has been from below average to worse. And his guitar tones have been nothing short of awful IMO.

 

[Kapo_Polenton]

lol MikeP, of course you are right and i should just hang my head in shame because god forbid I actually have an opinion about something... actually i think it might be you who is wrong. Electrical engineer this or that all you want but unless you are starting with the same transformers and circuit board layout, you can't be certain of hitingt 100 % accuracy. I've been looking at the schematic for the RM100 and a real plexi or JCM and there are differences on the module vs the preamp because of the way the PCB is designed. Not rocket science for a braniac but still, might requre some tailoring and part swaps to get the module where it is. Also don't forget, Scott may have nailed the fisch to YOUR ears but maybe I would have said "it needs more high end" Everyone is diff. I'm not being a dick, I am really just saying that it helps to have a benchmark to compare a module too no matter how good you think you are at reproducing a circuit.

PS- btw, loved the wicked sensation tone. What was that again Fish? I need Scott to get back in the game and to hook me up with that mod. Second Lynch Mob album was great too, a little less gain i really like that.Was that a boogie?

 

[Mike P]

lol MikeP, of course you are right and i should just hang my head in shame because god forbid I actually have an opinion about something... actually i think it might be you who is wrong.

Your opinion is a opinion. It's not based on experience.

Again, I disagree with your "opinion" because I have had the experience.

Electrical engineer this or that all you want but unless you are starting with the same transformers and circuit board layout, you can't be certain of hitingt 100 % accuracy. I've been looking at the schematic for the RM100 and a real plexi or JCM and there are differences on the module vs the preamp because of the way the PCB is designed. Not rocket science for a braniac but still, might requre some tailoring and part swaps to get the module where it is. Also don't forget, Scott may have nailed the fisch to YOUR ears but maybe I would have said "it needs more high end"

Of course you would. You're the guy that doesn't change his strings. You're the guy that uses Avatar cabs. I have no idea what else you have going on but after reading the about your issues over the past few years, your issues are your issues.

My intent isn't to slam you. It's just that your perspective is rather skewed and I'd hate someone to read your posts and avoid a module or modder or who knows what else.

Everyone is diff. I'm not being a dick, I am really just saying that it helps to have a benchmark to compare a module too no matter how good you think you are at reproducing a circuit.

And I completely disagree. And no offense, I would never in a million years trust your ears. It's been well documented that you have issues with "high end", which depending on your damage, could start anywhere between 2k and 12k.

PS- btw, loved the wicked sensation tone. What was that again Fish?

The first album was the Caswell modified purple Plexi head blended with a Soldano. His tone was amazing on that record and that was the last time his tone was amazing, IMO.

I need Scott to get back in the game and to hook me up with that mod. Second Lynch Mob album was great too, a little less gain i really like that.Was that a boogie?

The entire second record was a Fish.

 

[Kapo_Polenton]

First off i have an oversized avatar cab so it isn't THAT shitty.. probably better than a standard marshall 1960 cab.

second, old strings or not, characteristics are characteristics.. my opinion on a module is still of value if someone asks what other's opinions are.

While i do appreciate what you bring to this forum, i do have to note that you often come across as being somewhat of a know it all. Seriously, if we didn't exchange so much banter on this forum constantly, I might be offended. Instead however, the bottom line is that you , me, and George Lynch all have different ears. I do however love the fact that essentially you are right because well, you are MikeP and MikeP is always right! 8)You generally have a way of saying "no offence" after essentially trashing people's opinions and ears. Do you tell your musician friends that their ears and preferences are **** because well, you know better? You can't be that popular at poker night if you do!

I'd love to see what you think of the Judge after all my comments about it not cutting. Get your hands on one and let's get the party started because it seems the forum is split with people who love it and people who don't. We'd like to find out if all of our opinions don't matter!

PS- No issues with my ears m running my presence at a very conservative 1.5 these days.... not too shabby for a treble *****!

 

[wesarvin]

Mike has a way of annoying people who don't fit his ideas. Ignore it and move on. Take his opinions the same way he takes your opinions.

Let's remember that much of Satriani's Surfing album was cut with a Gorilla practice amp...

Tone is 90% guitar and player. The rest is all fluff that we gripe about for days. It just depends how much that 10% matters to you...

 

[Kapo_Polenton]

And Page used one of those little Sun or Supra amps I think.. John Norum on a tiny little practice amp sounds incredible. I wish I could find the clip but he is absolutely ripping it up on a little solid state amp before going on stage. The in the hands thing does apply no matter how many people say it doesn't. Yes you can sound like artist A or B with their gear but you did not write the solo, they did. Phrasing is essentially "tone in the hands".

 

[Mike P]

First off i have an oversized avatar cab so it isn't THAT shitty.. probably better than a standard marshall 1960 cab.

Probably? Based on what, exactly?

I already mentioned that they're cheaply built cabinets that don't use the same finger joints or construction, something you later said was confirmed by a friend of yours. Now, it's "probably better"? Again, based on what?

second, old strings or not, characteristics are characteristics.. my opinion on a module is still of value if someone asks what other's opinions are.

I'm sorry but you've lost all credibility with me. Your ears cannot be trusted.

For months on end, me and other forum members disagreed with your take on the inherent brightness of certain modules. I spent my time in this forum and in PM's with you offering all kinds of insight.

Finally, after months of going 'round and 'round on this issue, you change your guitar strings and "poof!", the issue has disappeared?

While i do appreciate what you bring to this forum, i do have to note that you often come across as being somewhat of a know it all.

Well, excuse me for actually having actual experience and commenting about those experiences instead of talking out of my arse.

You know, it's ironic that I'm being called out by a guy that doesn't change his guitar strings but claims his modules are too dark. And by a guy that "thinks" his Avatar cabinet is "probably better" than a standard Marshall.

I don't have a problem with you personally, whatsoever. But your comments are often so odd that at times, I think it's a joke account.

Seriously, if we didn't exchange so much banter on this forum constantly, I might be offended.

I've tried to be helpful to you for nearly a year and at no time did I insult you because you were having issues.

It's clear that we have extremely disparate experiences. I've tried to help you because we've had completely different experiences. I've prefaced some of my responses by saying "No offense" because I don't mean to offend you but at the same time, I realize that people are offended, even if they have no reason to be offended.

For example, it would be one thing if you had a Marshall 4x12 and an Avatar 4x12 side by side, made a recording and said "I think the Avatar sounds as good or better", then I said "I disagree". That's a shared experience. But by stating "I think it's probably as good or better" is a justification and without evidence, is unfounded.

Do you tell your musician friends that their ears and preferences are s*&t because well, you know better? You can't be that popular at poker night if you do!

I have plenty of ridiculously successful producer friends, as well as producer/composer friends. All of them have as much experience and gear (if not more) than I have and tons of credits to boot. And what I've learned is that people move forward in this world, not backward. Guys are looking for old Fender Supro's and old Marshall cabinets and old vintage instruments and so on, not going after cheap Chinese knockoffs.

It's a very different world than the discussions that take place on this forum. If you don't want my advice, don't take it.

I'd love to see what you think of the Judge after all my comments about it not cutting. Get your hands on one and let's get the party started because it seems the forum is split with people who love it and people who don't. We'd like to find out if all of our opinions don't matter!

I'm not even sure to what you're referring. And quite honestly, I think I've made opinions clear about what I think of any of the stock modules but then again, that's my opinion through experience and may not be yours.

 

[Mike P]

And Page used one of those little Sun or Supra amps I think..

Page used a Supro on the first Led Zep record. A producer friend of mine owns the same exact amp and it can be very cool in the right setting.

 

[Mike P]

Let's remember that much of Satriani's Surfing album was cut with a Gorilla practice amp...

This would be relevant if Joe Satriani had continued to use a Gorilla practice amp for his records. The fact is that as soon as the budget allowed, he hired Andy Johns and recorded the following record at Ocean Way with live musicians.

Tone is 90% guitar and player. The rest is all fluff that we gripe about for days. It just depends how much that 10% matters to you...

See above.

And whether you want to realize it or not, there IS such a thing as bad guitar tone.

 

[Mike P]

Mike has a way of annoying people who don't fit his ideas.

This doesn't even make sense.

 

[crankyrayhanky]

^lol

 

[Kapo_Polenton]

LOL is right.. MikeP you rule dude. I love it when he opens the whoop *** on me because he can literally pick everything and anything apart and I almost feel as if I should go take a cold shower and get my head back in the game. Put me in coach!

Oh, and def. not a joke account, just chasing tone like the rest of you guys.

PS- The vintage Avatars are diff than the standard. The guy i was talking to was referring to the standards but nevertheless i know what you are saying. In addition to this, Marshall 1922 and 1936 cabs are known for being MDF so i am saying that they are likely similar though i don't remember what they sound like off hand because it has been years since i played one. As for issues with thickness of the cab...i discovered the density knob was more valuable then i thought

 

[Mike P]

LOL is right.. MikeP you rule dude. I love it when he opens the whoop *** on me because he can literally pick everything and anything apart and I almost feel as if I should go take a cold shower and get my head back in the game. Put me in coach!

Oh, and def. not a joke account, just chasing tone like the rest of you guys.

PS- The vintage Avatars are diff than the standard. The guy i was talking to was referring to the standards but nevertheless i know what you are saying. In addition to this, Marshall 1922 and 1936 cabs are known for being MDF so i am saying that they are likely similar though i don't remember what they sound like off hand because it has been years since i played one. As for issues with thickness of the cab...i discovered the density knob was more valuable then i thought

Dude, once again, I'm not trying to insult, only trying to inform. Have I ever been rude to you in a PM or with any question you've ever asked?

And for the record, great tone isn't found by accident. As I've mentioned before, pickups, bridges, tuners, strings, wood, frets, cables, cabinets, tubes and amp design are all excruciatingly important to great tone.

A Behringer Composer isn't equal to a UA 1176 nor is a MXL condenser equal to a Neumann U47. If you want emulate the sounds that you covet, it's important to use the same exact gear.

 

[wesarvin]

Mike, a "no offense" preface isn't an excuse to lay down an insult. Verbal tone matters.

As a teacher, I see many kids every day with attitude problems. My favorite story is when one kindergartner smacked the other. When confronted, he stated "I said I was sorry, so I'm ok!"

We know you have experience with your composing work. You must also realize that major albums are often cut with more than a Bogner cube, Mojave mic, and an mts rack rig. Please humble yourself before jumping to biting attacks against people on this forum.

Tone matters. Both in guitar and in a social setting. We know that you understand the former, please work on the latter.

 

[Kapo_Polenton]

It's all good.. maybe we can all learn a lesson from this post. MikeP you have never talked **** to me or been insulting and I've always thanked you for educating me on things I didn't know. Sometimes however, even though you don't feel you are, I think you do come off sounding a bit condescending. Almost as if you know everything and that your opinion IS the opinion to take. That said, you also share a lot of useful and helpful information so it might very well be that you just need to work on your delivery. I think that is all anybody is saying. Unfortunately, you can work on your delivery but I can't work on my ears These bad boys are shot in the upper registrars.... drumming and metal are such thankless tasks! ( I wear hearing protection don't worry)