Jazz tones?

[ricky]

I realize that a lot of this forum is about higher gain sounds and such. As a studio kind of guy, I use all kinds of guitars for all kinds of things. I have high gain pick ups on some guitars, I have an old strat and an old tele, etc. I have found great tones using the modules for just about everything except a nice warm old jazz tone ala Jim Hall, Kenny Burrell, George Benson, Johnny Smith, etc. I have a couple of nice L-5s and was wondering if anyone has come up with the right module/settings for something like this.
thanks,
rick

 

[crankyrayhanky]

I'm no Jazz expert- or novice- by any means, but I love my Gigmods JTM for this style. Neck pickup & roll down the guitar tone, this mod sounds HUGE round and clean. I've been touting this application for years, I'll have to make a clip ...

 

[ricky]

I would love to hear it. I did googled gigmods and didn't find a company or gigmods.com says it is under construction. Where are they located? Did you buy the JTM from them or buy the randall and send it to them?
So many questions...
thanks,
ricky

 

[audiomidijace]

Jaded Faith Super Clean module.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GIY3iEuB3bc

 

[crankyrayhanky]

EpiGothLP7 (w/ BK Miracle Mans, neck pickup, volume:8, tone:2)> 11Rack>loop: rm4: Gigmods JTM>v30 u67 off (mic/cab sim)> Pro Tools> maxim comp>slight hi pass aorund 30


Here's my improv jazz attempt to demonstrate this type of tone of the JTM. Keep in mind I'm way out of my element here

http://soundcloud.com/crankyrayhanky/jazzy-jtm


edit: oops, my original clip neglected to add the cab/mics sims. Funny thing is, I've been jamming all day on hi gain wondering why my tone was harsh, lol. Reamped and re-uploaded, there's the low end!

 

[Mike P]

I realize that a lot of this forum is about higher gain sounds and such. As a studio kind of guy, I use all kinds of guitars for all kinds of things. I have high gain pick ups on some guitars, I have an old strat and an old tele, etc. I have found great tones using the modules for just about everything except a nice warm old jazz tone ala Jim Hall, Kenny Burrell, George Benson, Johnny Smith, etc. I have a couple of nice L-5s and was wondering if anyone has come up with the right module/settings for something like this.
thanks,
rick

Hi Rick,

There are a couple of modules that I own that can nail the Kenny Burrell, George Benson type of tone. I've been meaning to cut final versions of tracks in that genre, but I'm always getting sidetracked with other work.

The Salvation LoneClean would be my first choice because of it's versatility with cleaner tones. I have a fully loaded version, with the Crystal/Warm switch (instead of it mounted on the board). With my Epiphone Elitist Broadway loaded with Gibson Classic '57's, I can get it to be clean with sparkle, clean with spank or clean and warm with a hair of compression. It doesn't quite get to the Gibson GA-50 vibe, but it's really cool.

The other, believe it or not, is the Sacred Grooves Diablo. If requested, Scott can install a half-gain switch and the tone is unbelievable! It's big, thick and warm but very detailed, even with the gain set at 5 (noon). And of course, you can flip that switch and have a classic sound Dual Rectifier.

I'll try to get some tracks posted by the end of the month, if time permits. Good luck!

 

[ricky]

So how do I get ahold of sacred groove? I did a search and the only things that came up were the grailtone reviews. I would love to try the diablo with the half gain switch. Please post it if you get a clip. i would love to hear the kenny Burrell type sounds.

 

[BigBrewtus]

Just send him a PM on this forum. Im sure he will respond quickly. Great subject.

 

[ricky]

How do I get a hold of him to pm him? Scott from sacred groove, if you are out there, pm me.....

Thanks everyone. This has been helpful. It's nice to know that there are so many tone freaks of a different variety!

 

[Julia]

I have a stock KH-1 I use for this, but IMO the Randall amp needs a soft knee rack compressor in the effects loop like a dbx 166 or 266 set to "Over Easy" to even out the signal so the transients don't clip any reverb unit.

I like my Fender HR Deville better than any of them for Jazz tones. Why? The clean channel doesn't break up at all.

 

[alowerdeep]

Stock Randall clean would work great for this application......

 

[Mike P]

I like my Fender HR Deville better than any of them for Jazz tones. Why? The clean channel doesn't break up at all.

Yeah, but quite honestly, that's boring. And toneless.

If you listen to the guitarists that he mentioned in George Benson and Kenny Burrell, there's a "sound" and vibe that isn't akin to a "clean" amp. There's tube compression and a hint of overdrive, which gives those players something to work against. Occasionally, a note will distort heavily or a phrase will have a completely different tone, just by fingering different.

With a Fender amp like a DeVille, you're going to miss all of that, which is why jazz players traditionally avoided Fender amps in favor of Gibsons, especially in the 50's and 60's.

Wes Montgomery through a Deluxe or Twin? YUCK.

 

[Mike P]

Stock Randall clean would work great for this application......

Not really, Man. Not really...

 

[Mike P]

How do I get a hold of him to pm him? Scott from sacred groove, if you are out there, pm me.....

Thanks everyone. This has been helpful. It's nice to know that there are so many tone freaks of a different variety!

[email protected]

Good luck!

 

[ricky]

Actually Wes Montgomery did play Fenders for a lot of his career...mostly a Super Reverb, but later a twin. He also used something like a Standell or Gretsch. I am pretty sure Jim Hall has always used Gibsons.
You are right about the "vibe." There is just some kind of big fat warmth to these guys tones that is hard to describe....not quite a gain break up/overdrive, but sort of....
Most tone is from the player of course, but there are easier and harder ways to get that tone. Here is one of my favorite jazz dudes getting that fat tone on a tele with a Fender amp, although I heard he used a Roland Cube a lot:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vCnT8prUqFY
ricky

 

[Mike P]

Actually Wes Montgomery did play Fenders for a lot of his career...mostly a Super Reverb,but later a twin.

I had never heard that before you posted. I did an internet search and there's a website claiming he used a Super in the 50's, and he may well have, but his recordings don't sound like a Super to me. The Super is a very, very cool amp and much different than a Twin, Deluxe or even a Bassman (even though they were 4x10 combo amps). SRV used one on nearly every record (in conjunction with other amps when recording).

He also used something like a Standell or Gretsch. I am pretty sure Jim Hall has always used Gibsons.

The Standel amps were solid state but had a crazy cool vibe to them, especially the 2x15 combo amp. It broke up very nicely for jazz and actually sounded like a tube amp. The combination of an underpowered head to a pair of 15" speakers was pretty magical.

You are right about the "vibe." There is just some kind of big fat warmth to these guys tones that is hard to describe....not quite a gain break up/overdrive, but sort of....
Most tone is from the player of course, but there are easier and harder ways to get that tone.

People's hands vary quite a bit. I have thin fingers without much flesh, so it's not as easy for me to get "that" tone as it is for guys with fleshy fat fingers. Same goes for bass guitar. Some of the best "true" bass players I've heard and met have super fleshy fingers, which definitely contributes to the tone.

The Polytone combo was another amp that was recorded quite extensively in 50's & 60's jazz records and it definitely has a very unique tone.

Please keep in mind that while the Sacred Grooves Diablo is very cool in low gain mode, it will be very, very different than the Polytone, Gibson or Standel sound.

 

[Julia]

Typically when I'd play that amp, I'd run a low level tubescreamer if I wanted a little "hair" on the tone if picking hard. I don't fingerpick either. I suck at it, so I use a heavy pick.

I'm playing now through a POD HD. It has a Gibson amp on it, along with a bunch of boutique amps. It tends to break up a little too early. The Twin can get some breakup depending upon how you set the gain. Same with the Deluxe. Ford plays through a Twin when he plays live.

Then I'm not a lead guitar player. I'm a rhythm player that plays more chunky chord rhythms. Any soloing I do is going to be done on the piano or on a B3.

 

[ricky]

Thanks Julia, you have given me a great idea. I am at work, but I may have a modeled Gibson amp on my Digitech GSP1101 at home. What I could try is using the Gibson model with one of the clean Randall modules for some tube warmth.
Mike, Were Polytones in the 50s tube amps? I think they are solid state now. Did you check out the Ed Bickert video I posted? Amazing tone on a Tele!
ricky

 

[Mike P]

Thanks Julia, you have given me a great idea. I am at work, but I may have a modeled Gibson amp on my Digitech GSP1101 at home. What I could try is using the Gibson model with one of the clean Randall modules for some tube warmth.

No offense Ricky but the last place I'd look for "tube warmth" is modeler. You'd be better off with a tube driven overdrive pedal but better yet, a modified module.

Mike, Were Polytones in the 50s tube amps? I think they are solid state now.

My bad: Polytone wasn't founded until 1968 and as far as I know, they've always been solid state.

Did you check out the Ed Bickert video I posted? Amazing tone on a Tele!
ricky

I haven't had a chance. Hopefully tonight.

 

[ricky]

No offense taken, Mike. All I am saying is that the combination of a modeled amp and the Randall warming it up is an amazing thing! I have a Gibson amp as well as an old Vox, several Fenders, etc. It has been nice for me to have just one unit able to cover all of that. Most of the high gain modeled amps in either my GSP or my old Line6 were pretty close, but I couldn't even come close to older tube amps until I got the randall about 6 weeks ago. The combination is sometimes stunning. I am at lunch now, but can't wait to get home and try out the Gibson model.
BTW, When I play live, I do run everything through a Carvin tube pwr amp w/6L6's. So all the models do is add some different tone to all of the tube stuff.