MTS or Axe-FX

[Mailman1971]

MTS or AXEFX????
MTS.....all modded....ALL THE WAY!!

 

[danielodland]

Mmmm....all this discussion is giving me some serious Axe GAS. I have a RM4 more or less on its way, though I'm starting to think I should just get rid of my home and buy another AxeFX in addition to the RM4. I used to have an ULTRA, and now I miss it..=)

 

[Ugg]

I've been using my AxeFx Ultra for effects with my M4 and RT2/50 for a few months now. It really is an awesome combination.

Here are some of the things I have found while using the AxeFx. Sorry for the long post.

The 4 cable method is unusable (to my ears) because output 2 (effects loop send) on the Axe isn't a true guitar level signal. This causes noticeable tone coloring when running Guitar -> AxeFx -> M4 -> AxeFx -> Power Amp. This means I can't use pre effects like wah or drive before the M4. On the plus side, running Guitar -> M4 -> AxeFx -> Power Amp sounds great in series (no parallel loop needed). To get the AxeFx amp modeling without the M4, I'm using a GCX to switch between Guitar -> M4 -> AxeFx and Guitar -> AxeFx. This gives me the best of both worlds, real tubes or amp modeling.

Speaking of amp modeling, I can get the AxeFx pretty close to the sound of my high gain modules. Close enough so that most people wouldn't notice the difference. However, the models lack the feel and presence of real tubes. My modules still sound more "alive" and dynamic, enough for me to keep the M4 in my rig.

In the studio is where the AxeFx truly shines. It's amp and cab models can generate some killer tones direct to a mixing board or recording device. My band has been laying down AxeFx guitar tracks on our new album with great success. The cab models also sound great with a tube preamp (M4 or RM4) in front. Pretty much the same result as using impulse responses on a computer, except the AxeFx is doing all the processing.

The AxeFx is not a plug-and-play device. It takes a lot of time and patience to sit and tweak all the parameters to get it to sound good. Also, while the built-in (factory) cabinet impulse responses are good, I've found that loading custom IR's can make it sound a thousand times better.

Bottom line, IMO, the AxeFx comes really close, but it cannot replace a good tube amp for high gain sounds. I've found that it's real strengths are 1) using it live for effects with a tube amp and 2) using it for amp modeling in the studio. I haven't tried the AxeFx into FRFR (full range, flat response) monitors yet, but being a tube guy, I don't think it could replace my tube amps.

 

[hyenik]

The cab models also sound great with a tube preamp (M4 or RM4) in front. Pretty much the same result as using impulse responses on a computer, except the AxeFx is doing all the processing.

This is best place for this kind of device, much more easier than computer way. Thanks Ugg for this perfect review.

Btw these are our experiences with guitar modeling. You can simulated one part of chain and still have good results. Tube preamp + impulse for simulation of cab, or preamp modeling through real cab with real microphones. If you try to use complete simulation, by our meaning sound goes one level down (nevermind, that can sound cool and nice) We made many samples with Amplitube or Gearbox, which was not bad, but ......

Last note: Don?t forget that MTS is for most people only next poor simulation

 

[Julia]

I dunno. I thought about it. And everytime I think about it, I have my MTS here and it works and does what I want. So.... and for how I record stuff I think I'd be better off with Digidesign Eleven LE for the cab sims because there I can set the amount of cone breakup.

 

[audioholic]

I dunno. I thought about it. And everytime I think about it, I have my MTS here and it works and does what I want. So.... and for how I record stuff I think I'd be better off with Digidesign Eleven LE for the cab sims because there I can set the amount of cone breakup.

you can do that with the AXE fx. having used both, the Axe fx is much better then 11 imo.

 

[Julia]

for the price of the AXE FX, it better **** well be better than Digidesign's Eleven LE. We're comparing something that costs four times as much.

If I went with the AXE I'd sell off every amp and pedal and get a Crown power amp, and run into the two 212 cabs in stereo.

 

[audioholic]

for the price of the AXE FX, it better **** well be better than Digidesign's Eleven LE. We're comparing something that costs four times as much.

If I went with the AXE I'd sell off every amp and pedal and get a Crown power amp, and run into the two 212 cabs in stereo.

right but keep in mind that 11 is just amps, no efx, no stereo rigs, very very simple. Axe fx can do direct, into power amp and cab. BOTH at the same time, act as a very high quality fx unit, routing and I/O very well thought out, really, for what you get there is no comparison to 11 in features, which is why it costs so much more. if you just want a few amp sims, then 11 is decent.

 

[Ugg]

If you love the sound of tubes then you probably won't be happy running an AxeFx through a solid state power amp and guitar cab. I tried it with a 200W solid state power amp through my 2x12 and it didn't have the headroom, clarity, or punch of my RT2/50. Some people on the Fractal Audio forum seem to like it, so it might depend on the type of amplifier and how loud you normally play.

I have been able to get good sounds running the Axe through my RT2/50 and guitar cab. To do this I removed the cab modeling block and setup the amp model with very little to no SAG (power amp coloring). This way the Axe is just emulating the preamp section.

The Axe is designed to model the full signal chain: amp, cab, pre and post effects. Running it into full range monitors or a PA might be the best option. I've never tried this in a band situation so I can't confirm. The Axe sounds good through my studio monitors at home, though.

 

[shred-o-holic]

If you love the sound of tubes then you probably won't be happy running an AxeFx through a solid state power amp and guitar cab. I tried it with a 200W solid state power amp through my 2x12 and it didn't have the headroom, clarity, or punch of my RT2/50. Some people on the Fractal Audio forum seem to like it, so it might depend on the type of amplifier and how loud you normally play.

Cliff (the axefx designer) uses a SS Carvin and switched off a VHT power amp. He said you can get the SS power amps sounding more tubey by adjusting things in the Power Amp sims like Transfomer match, tube bias....etc.

The axe can be voiced to make alot of SS and tube power amps sound great..

 

[okstrat]

I tried plugging my direct out from my rm20 into my board last night, into headphones- yuck!! Would the Fractal cab sims somehow fix this? Is that how Pete does it?

Just saw this thread... I run an RM4 into the front of the Fractal, and leave everything but a little 'verb and cab emulation off. I prefer using this to record clips because I can make them a lot faster and it's easier to hear differences on playback when I know everything is going to be constant except for the module, if that makes sense.

 

[okstrat]

Here's my 2 cents... the axe is a great piece of gear. So is the Randall stuff. So are my bogner, soldano, marshall, and mesa amps. Heck, I even have some line 6 gear... bottom line is if you are playing and enjoying it, who cares? I like the flexibility of having different types of rigs. I jammed with friends the other day - took an RM20 with a modded brown module and a 2x12, and a DD20 in the loop. Played a house party with friends - took my Bogner 1/2 stack and a Line 6 M13. Played a casino gig few months back, took the Fractal and a powered monitor.

Fractal effects are Eventide quality. I know guys who don't even use the modelling. So you can use it as a processor with your tube amps. I know guys who use the effects in their home studios since they are so clean.

There are two things that the Fractal does better than tube amps for me... again, my opinion only:

1) late night or 'gotta be quiet or the wife will kill me' headphone practice/playing. yeah, it's overkill, but it sounds amazing. I didn't buy it just for this, but it sounds so good it would be a crime not to.

2) FOH sound. I have worked with great soundmen, and the fractal set up properly, with the cab emulated output going to FOH - kills every miked tube setup I've owned for FOH sound. I like the fact that I can run out front, listen to my tone, have the sound guy tweak it a hair at the board, and have an awesome tone with little or no hassle. Compare that to having a cranked amp onstage, and fussing with the mic, hoping nobody bumps your mic stand or amp, going FOH, playing a bit, not right, adjust the mic, etc. The best results I used to get when using a tube amp were with an SM57 and a Sennheiser E609 Silver mixed together.

Having said that, is there anything on the axe that feels as good as chugging a riff through a cranked bogner / marshall / soldano / mesa / whatever you like?

Nope! Running an axe through a tube power amp into a 4x12 cranked gets awful close, but it's not quite there yet. I've seen standards go as low as $1200, amazing deal for that much power.

Pete

 

[GtrGeorge!]

I love the debate...
I recall going thru this same debate about 15 years ago. I was so adamant about my studio recordings then..how the guitars sounded so good.
Well its 15 years later and I now LOVE my Tubes and my Rm4. I go back and have to agree that my sounds, while nice for that day and age..they just dont hold up.
I take my Rm4 anyday over the modeling circuits. Sorry. I wish I could get that great sound in a tiny package..but we arent there yet, I feel.
maybe one day..in the meantime: check out my video clips to hear me live and tell me what ya think of these tones..
myspace.com/georgebarrysolo go to the live Video "The Fuse" at Mulcahy...thats me and my Rm4 playing live...no overdubs.
Any questions???