MTS vs the real thing

[kc2eeb]

One more thing. A "better" output transformer may actually require you to play the amp even louder to get to the "sweet spot." Same, but to a lesser degree, the power transformer. The RM50 and RT2/50 run about 505 DC volts on the plates. That gives it more head room than say a Super Reverb which was around 450 DC volts. A "smaller" output transformer will "squish" it's magnetic field earlier and get to it's sweet spot at a lower volume. Eventually, I'm going to build a power amp, using 6V6s with about 375 DC volts on the plates, like a DeLuxe Reverb, and put the RM4 through that. JJ 6V6s, in the RMs will also allow getting to "the sound" at a lower volume but 505 on the plates is just too high for a 6V6.

 

[withmittens]

I've heard some folks run the JJ 6V6 because they are a hybrid and can handle a higher voltage. do they just not last so long at high volumes? the voltage will drop when payed hard, no? they are said to be good to 480 or possible more voltage

 

[kc2eeb]

I have run them (there's a pair sitting on my bench) and I probably will again. They really sound sweet. Around the time I had to repair my RM50 I had been running them. I do NOT blame the JJ 6V6s for the failure, but, if you look at the specs:
http://www.jj-electronic.com/pdf/6V6.pdf

500 Volts is the limit (Ua) anode voltage in pentode service. The RM50 runs
500 to 510 depending on line voltage. Yeah, I already thought of using a variac to bring the line voltage to 110 VAC. Here, in NH it can run up to 126 VAC depending on time of day. I would also bias them at idle (no signal) around 19 to 21ma. Please check that. (It's on the forum someplace)
Hope this helps.

 

[Kapo_Polenton]

My experience playing my jcm800 or 800 clone is that the MTS stuff sounds good and can be close but it can't beat out the real deal. There is a crispness, a bigness, and a rawness that the MTS doesn't always have.

 

[davetheslave]

My Rm100 has ben out of action for some time and so I've been playing a lot on my Rm22.
When I first got the Rm22 I couldn't believe it had no master volume however on playing it so much of late I've really become accustomed to playing with the modules cranked and using my guitar volume to control it.
I've been loving the tones I've been getting and I put it next to a few different fenders and things and while it didn't have the same tone it definitely had it's own thing going on and was still more versatile than one amp alone.It's only downside was it couldn't get as loud as say the fender bandmaster or JTM.

 

[kc2eeb]

Funny how things come full circle. No surprise that it sounds best with the modules cranked, as it would be in a "old school" non-master volume amp.
I've always looked at the master volume knob as the "keep everybody happy
but the guitarist" knob.

 

[suphuckers]

I've been able to get much better sounds using good compression and etc. The more I tweak on it the better it sounds at lower volumes. I really don't need to crank mine to 100 anymore to get it to sound good. Point being... great tone can be had with the modules me thinks. It just takes a little work.

 

[withmittens]

I have a EH Black Finger, tube compressor. I used to use it to get a fuller sound. It took away the attack though. would it be advisable to use it in one of the loops? if so, which one?

 

[suphuckers]

I'm still working on it withmittens so I can't advise you really. My compressor is a clone of some famous compressor that everyone loves (I forget which one), and I put it in front. My effects loops are extremely complicated/complex so what I do probably won't work for other people unless they copy my whole rig me thinks. For me my particular setup and compressor would not work in the loop. My compressor doesn't seem to take away the attack tho. It has an attack knob on it, and if anything it might just increase the attack. Maybe you just need a better compressor? I just added the compressor in a few days ago and it made quite a bit of difference as far as the feel. That's all I know. I was starting to get a little bummed about the feel aspect until then. Normally I don't use compression. I've had this pedal for a while, but my previous setups didn't need it.

 

[withmittens]

so, I am using the RM4 into the loop of the RM50. I patched both Parallel loops and maxed the RM4 effects knob. Rm50 knob is about 1/2

Volume of RM4 is noon.

module volumes are all 1 or 2pm

Presence is dimed, density is at 11

Amp master is below 9 0clock, I tend to turn it up to 9 oclock for practicing in my studio

with this setup I am getting a very organic, harmonic sound, for whatever reason the deadness seems to be gone or at least very lessened. I use a clean boost as well. this gives it more life.

I think part of the problem is all the volume controls all over the place. Make them all high, add the additional gain stages by patching and crack them up. find the balance between mod volume and master volume and let rip.

It a tweaking issue until I can test with another amp altogether

 

[kc2eeb]

I suggested using the RM4 in the effects loop of the RM50 YEARS ago.
It's in my posts somewhere. You put it in the parallel loop, which works. I have also used it in the series loop, using RM50 as a "boost" for the RM4.
Yes, the levels are REALLY sensitive, and actually works best with "cleaner modules like the "Deluxe" into the "Blackface." If you happen to have a S.T.E.P. pedal or the box Bruce built a while ago, you can fine tune it even better. The only thing that counts is does it sound good to you.

 

[withmittens]

ah, maybe I described that incorrectly. The RM4 is inserted on the Return of the Series loop, there is no send. It;s just bypassing the preamp, using the RM4 as preamp, not driving the amp's preamps. I'll be getting an A/B switch to change from RM4 pres to RM50 pres.

both parallel loops are patched though.

 

[kc2eeb]

I understand. Of course, that works as expected. You may want to experiment with what I described. Of course it seems unorthodox, which I find rather humorous considering how "wild" and "non-comforming" rock and roll is supposed to be.
What I initially did was this:
RM50 with DeLuxe module, out from series loop into RM4 guitar input. (I know,I know, I know, line level into instrument level!!!!!!!) RM4 with Blackface module, out from RM4 into series return. Today I do it with the S.T.E.P. pedal i.e. Series out from RM50 into S.T.E.P. pedal, out from S.T.E.P.
to guitar input of RM4, RM4 out to series return. What this simply does is use the RM50 module as a very adjustable "boost pedal" to the RM4. It sounds "hyper" amplified. Think Clapton with the Bluesbreakers. It just a suggestion, that's all.

 

[withmittens]

I may try to beef up the SuperVox with a clean Orange sound with your method....

 

[kc2eeb]

I appreciate that very much. Let me know how it turns out.