My noise issue still occurs.

[kylendm]

Alright so everything is all fixed all new mogami cables and everything. But the issue still occurs. It is deffinatly my effects loop that is making all the noise. I put my pedal through my effects loop but now it cancels out all my reverb. Heres what i'm trying to do now.

I want reverb, OD, and eq to all work noiselessly. I have an ISP decimator and it's not cutting it.

At the moment i have the OD infront of the amp and the Reverb and EQ in the series effects loop. The ISP is running after the OD infront of my amp and the noise is the effects loop. If i run the ISP through the effects loop at the end of the chain it cuts out all my reverb.

What do i do.

Should i invest in an ISP Decimator G string?

(My pedals are: TS-9 Tubescreamer, EHX Holy Grail, MXR 10 band EQ and ISP.)

P.S. Its also 10x louder through my XTC than my Brown module.

 

[JKD]

Run the reverb after the noise gate?

Are you getting a lot of actual noise or is it just high gain hissssss?

 

[kylendm]

Its both actually.

 

[kylendm]

Ok so i ran it before the reverb. Now my amp is getting random high feedback and my speakers sound thumpy? It's weird.

 

[Julia]

Do you have a -15 db pad in your FX loop? The Randall loop is "line level" designed for pro-quality rack gear and not pedal-friendly.

Try turning the level control on the preamp module down to about 10:00. That should help. If your effects still sound strange try a Morley Line Level Shifter. and put that first in the chain out of the amp in the FX loop.

Also if you're using power supplies, your FX loop stuff should be on a completely different circuit than your stuff that's before the amp.

The pedal version of the Decimator or Decimator G-string are not designed for line level.

But if you're going to go with the Decimator G-string ($250), Line Level Shifter ($75), and then start thinking about upgrading stuff further to get rid of the noise (like new power bricks, etc.), I'd think about a GSP1101 and a Control 2.

 

[kylendm]

What exactly does the line level shifter do though? And whats a -15db pad? Looks like i got a bit of learning to do.

Here's a picture of my board.

On the left. Everything is going to the series loop and right is just right in front of the amp.

I'm a mess i know :lol:

 

[Julia]

What exactly does the line level shifter do though? And whats a -15db pad? Looks like i got a bit of learning to do.

This is probably more complicated than I'm gonna say, but here's the gist.

the output of the FX loop is +4 dbu. That's line level. This is what most pro quality rack gear uses.

Stomp boxes are designed to operate at -10 dbu.

So if you use stomp boxes in your FX loop you need to reduce the signal by -15 dbu which is what is commonly called a -15 pad. This is what the Line Level Shifter does. It is also best to use it only one way -- as a pad. It doesn't do the best job boosting the signal back.

This is supposed to keep your signal from clipping when it hitsyour stomp box. An unintentially clipped signal sounds like doggy doo. However if you have your channel level set too high you can blow by this pad and clip anyway. Note that you will have to run your Master Volume hotter to get the same volume level. Example with a pad to get the same volume I'm running the amp at 2:00 - 3:00 on the MV vs. 11:00 to noon with nothing in the loop.

You should also use your reverb and delays in the serial loop AFTER the Line Level Shifter.

FX loops and power situations can cause ground loops which cause hum. It is therefore my opinion that since the ISP Decimator G-string (considered a Stomp Box) connects to the signal chain first from your guitar, and then again first in the loop that it should have its own power supply -- and it does not use batteries very well unless you're rich. Any stomp boxes before the amp should be on a separate power brick than those that are in the FX loop, unless you've gone with Eventide quality stuff that has a ground lift. The individual ISP Decimator (original version) might be happiest in the FX loop before the Reverb but AFTER the Line Level Shifter.

At present I'm not using my loops at all. I didn't like the tone suckage so I'm running everything in front of the amp. I'm not using reverb and delay. However if I decided to run a delay I'd try it before the amp first. I don't have the $$$ right now to go get a pro rack MFX unit like the GSP1101 and Control 2 footswitch, and I like my booteek fuzzes.

But like I said if you're thinking of spending about $400 - 500 on stuff to make your reverb pedal work you should just bite the bullet and get the GSP1101 and Control 2 and be done with it.

You can get a lot more technical in the description but this is the dumbed down version that I understand.

 

[SacredGroove]

The line leveler will convert the operating level of your pedals to work correctly in your fx loop. This is more than likely the source of noise, no matter how you hook them up and the line leveler should solve it.

Just make sure your ISP is before any time-based fx, like reverb and delay. This will let your fx trail off naturally and not get cut off.

 

[Julia]

oooo.. you've got the MXR EQ!!! have you noticed the LEDs flicker? That's an indication that your signal is clipping going into it. Also this should be in line AFTER the decimator if you keep it in the loop.

Also you might want to try running the EQ before the amp right after your tubescreamer. Roll off the frequencies 8 kHz to -6 db, and 16 kHz to -12 db -- it's all noise out there anyway; and roll off the 31 Hz -12 db, and the 62 Hz -4 to -5 db because youre speakers don't respond well there anyway and tend to make mud in that zone. I've done this and noticed the bass response is actually better.

Here's my board (all in front): chain goes... tuner > Octafuzz > Keeley JB > Screw Driver > LBMP > TS808 (first buffer) > Q-tron > EQ > amp

Here's a closeup of the EQ -- I've got it set to mimic a stationary wah, sort of, but if you don't want that you just flatten out the middle frequencies. Note the roll-off of unnecessary frequencies on the fringes. Remember your guitar speaker response is typically 85 Hz - 5.5 kHz (V-30s may go to 75 Hz?) so at best they're only going to produce some harmonic of anything outside the range which means mud below, and hiss above their range.

I'm not using any noise gates. I play with stock Fender single coils and active humbuckers.

 

[kylendm]

Thanks for the responces guys. I'm going to get the line level and hope it works out. Ill try what u said about the EQ when i get home.

 

[JKD]

The Line Level Shifter is surely going to help with teh pedals but am not sure it's going to correct the symptom of excessive noise and seemingly microphonic squealing you are having....that could be an overloaded reverb pedal I suppose...


Just make sure you've at least done basic trouble shooting of the pre-amp tubes...unhook everything except guitar -> cable -> amp -> cab and get your noise issue sorted first.

 

[Julia]

Also for testing purposes, try a 9v battery in your tubescreamer -- just don't forget to disconnect the plugs from the TS9 when you're done playing. That may curb some noise issues as well.

and one other thing I just caught.... the MXR M-108 EQ uses an 18v power supply. That board only has 9v power. You are underpowering your EQ.

 

[kylendm]

Gah! i hate my life!

of course that is the only adapter i lost .

The closest thing i can find it a 14v lol

 

[Jaded Faith]

One more thing to keep in mind is the Reverb pedal you are using has opposite polarity from your pedal board too. I used to have that board and that pedal. The board was given to my bassist for some computer work he did for me and the pedal is in parts as a very low priority project. The reverb pedal is VERY finicky and was known to do several odd things in my time with it. Similar to some of what you mentioned and beyond.

I am sure you didn't need this on top of all the other info in this thread, but everything mentioned is 100% accurate so far.

 

[kylendm]

:rollseyes:

maybe it might be time for a new reverb pedal. Anyone know the selling value of the holy grail and maybe some suggestions for some better reverb pedals. I also notice the reverb lowers the volume of my amp substantially

 

[Jaded Faith]

I checked out a couple recently (not for loop use, but some effect stuff on cleans on the front end and part time use for acoustic gigs) and the Boss RV-5 works great. My Holy Gail sounds great when it works right, but it's mostly a paper weight on my workbench..... :lol:

 

[Julia]

FYI, my Octafuzz is a positive ground and opposite the board power supply so I use 9v batteries in it -- yes and don't forget to disconnect it after use.

Okay, so now we're looking at:

1) Line Level Shifter
2) A quality reverb
3) New power supplies
4) the possibility of a Decimator g-string.

This is starting to add up. The TC Nova Reverb can take max of 16 dbu input but that's still going to require a LLS (line level is 24 dbu).

I'd start thinking about a G-major, and call Sweetwater and talk to Keith. He'll set you up. I'm pretty sure this uses line level. If not the TC Nova System does. I just can't get my internet to load the page. It's doing weird stuff, like errors on Youtube videos.

 

[kylendm]

I was just wondering. How good is the G-Major?
Should i save up for the G-Major 2?

All i really want is good reverb and delay. I think i worked out the noise issue. (Nothing in the effects loop at all :wink It's not the best since i don't really get to use the effects i want but it'll do for now. The reverb is also very noisy after the Decimator for some reason but if i put it before it i get no reverb.

I really just want to go with the G-Major at this point.

 

[Julia]

I think the G-major has its own noise gate. And you'll also need a footswitch with it. But Keith at Sweetwater will set you up with something. I'd keep it simple with the setup and use the series loop. I'm not a fan of parallel loops. they do weird things with time based effects.

 

[kylendm]

Alright i am officially the king of changing his mind. :twisted:

I looked into the Nova Reverb. And it says it has a +16db input and output. Is that good enough for the Line level of the Randalls? If so i think thats what im gonna get and get rid of my Holy Grail as it really isn't what i want anyway.