Preamp Tubes

[audiomidijace]

Here's some advice from your buddy Jace; next time you get the itch to try a new module, take that $200 and buy as many different preamp tubes as you can instead. It's amazing what a difference it makes in your tone. My salvation Mashall tone improved at least 25% just by experimenting with some preamp tubes. My advice is to leave the tube that you're used to in the V2 position and experiment with tubes in V1. Once you've found what you like there, then play with V2.
Cheers,
Jace

 

[Mattfig]

So what did you put in the Mashall????

 

[m0jo]

Here's some advice from your buddy Jace; next time you get the itch to try a new module, take that $200 and buy as many different preamp tubes as you can instead. It's amazing what a difference it makes in your tone. My salvation Mashall tone improved at least 25% just by experimenting with some preamp tubes. My advice is to leave the tube that you're used to in the V2 position and experiment with tubes in V1. Once you've found what you like there, then play with V2.
Cheers,
Jace

I'm actually about to retube the entire rig.
Then I discovered that there are actually 18(!!!) tubes in this rig!
8 preamp tubes in the RM4, 3 preamp tubes in the RT2/50 + 4 power tubes

It came down to over 230 euro's.. :shock:

Anyway, yeah I definitly recommend doing this.
I'd say: get 2 of each brand. This way you can try all combinations of V1/V2/V3.
I'd definitly do that first, experiment with each module, and *then* order the whole shebang that you want.

My comments on different brands:
EHX: Agressive and high gain, biting (but sometimes a bit fuzzy and fizzy)
Tung Sol: Agressive and open (my favorite, no negative comments)
JJ: fat and full (can be too compressed, a bit dull with the wrong guitar)
As you might imagine: combining the EHX or Tung Sol and JJs works very well!

I'm really looking towards trying some Sylvania's, since they're supposed to be in between EHX's and Tung Sols (all are New Sensor brands).

 

[audiomidijace]

So what did you put in the Mashall????

I don't have the model numbers in front of me, but I ended up with an EH in V1 and a Tung Sol in V2.

 

[m0jo]

So what did you put in the Mashall????

I don't have the model numbers in front of me, but I ended up with an EH in V1 and a Tung Sol in V2.

Wow, same here!
Have you tried with a JJ in the V2 though?
That fattens and "smooths" it up a bit, can be nice for slightly "nicer" sounds.

 

[GtrGeorge!]

I put some Groove Tubes in my Brahma..I have no idea how they compare to EH or JJ..anybody know???
GtrGeorge

 

[speedemon]

Here we go again...

if you dig, you will find endless spew about this topic. I agree with Jace, pre's make a diff. Professor Julia does not. Take your pick.

I have tried those too.

EHX New Sensor - nicely dark but slightly stiff

JJ - Mud, mud, and more mud, lots of gain/distortion, they do this for everything I have; Marshall, Splawn, RM100, Radial dist. pedal.

Tung Sol - bright sounding, a lot like the chinese tube, but lively like you might want.

Mullard - falls between the EHX and Tung Sol, lively and not too bright or dark, good in british modules

Groove Tube - bright and kind of stiff, like a chinese tube, because...

Chinese rebrand;take your pick, GT, ARS, Ruby - trebly, squawky on high gain settings.

NOS USA - Gray plate makes a great V1 in the amp, long black plate in modules. Also spectacular in the dist. pedal, too much in the Splawn.

5751 - JAN Phillips is a good one. The GT was disappointing, I will be plugging a pair of GE 5 star in the Tweed when the RM100 gets back from getting EL34s.

Good luck and have fun!

 

[JKD]

The kicker with tubes is there is significant parameter variation within a single make/model...which means one Tung-sol may not sound the same as the next...to compound that, how are you measuring whether the tube you are putting in is 'good' ?

Also, a Tung-Sol might be great in a Marshall circuit but not so good in a Fender...example chosen at random.

I read recently how someone got significant changes in their Benzin by changing tubes...it was very responsive to them. I changed v1 in mine with 2 different tubes and found it made no significant difference...who is 'right' or is it just how the module was dialed/a 'lucky' combination of parameters

The end result is it requires a lot of experimentation...and gets expensive

 

[speedemon]

The kicker with tubes is there is significant parameter variation within a single make/model...which means one Tung-sol may not sound the same as the next...to compound that, how are you measuring whether the tube you are putting in is 'good' ?

Also, a Tung-Sol might be great in a Marshall circuit but not so good in a Fender...example chosen at random.

I read recently how someone got significant changes in their Benzin by changing tubes...it was very responsive to them. I changed v1 in mine with 2 different tubes and found it made no significant difference...who is 'right' or is it just how the module was dialed/a 'lucky' combination of parameters

The end result is it requires a lot of experimentation...and gets expensive

Agreed.
And while we're at it, lets be honest, there is also a certain percentage of perceived tone that is all in the listeners head.
If you think your $40 n.o.s. tube is going to sound better, it will sound better to you, whether it actually does or not.

I think there is an abundant amount of self importance on forums regarding the ability to properly define good tone.
Guys claiming to hear things just so they can come across as an authority.

$.03,


R~

Fo sho my bruthah. Everyone has different ears, as well as opinions, spouses...I didn't know what to make of NOS before I tried them, (and I didn't like them in my Splawn anyway)so I was trying to be unbiased (doh, there's that bad pun!)

Yes, I had a bunch of New Sensors tested, and the ones that came up "low" numbers on the tester, were actually lame in the amp too. Aspen Pittman was telling me how cool his 12ax7s that he had replicated the "Mullard"; sounded just like all the other China tubes I pulled out of my amps.

I bought a tube labled "Amperex Made in Britain", sounded just like my RCA black plates 12ax7s.

Sorry if I sounded "self important", not trying to be! Just an old guy who has played on a lot of crap and good stuff over the years. And people are asking for opinions, so there they are, nothing more, nothing less. Yes, it is really a giant mind job. When you go to a club to watch bands, everyone claps and cheers for the little kids on their Crates and B52s as well as the rich guys on their"Boutique" whatevers.

"Tone" is subjective of course, some folks love death metal and Killswitch Engage, and others ZZ Top and Jimi Hendrix.

It's all about having fun and being creative, not suiting someone else, but I think everyone here understands that.

Have fun!

 

[m0jo]

I think you also need to be at a certain level of tweaking for tubes to really make a difference to you.

There's no doubt that EHX's and JJ's sound different, but do they completely change the amp?
Depends on who you ask, for me they do, for someone else the difference might be negledgable.
Because the difference isn't that big to be honest, it's a detail kind of thing .. some people look more at the rough lines.

Then again I've also met people who think the wood in a guitar is not important, just the pickups.
.. yeah ... make a mahogany strat and tell me if it's as spanky as an ash one with the same pickups mmkay?

 

[m0jo]

Aaah nooooo! I'm surrounded by old guys talking about NOS tubes!
:lol:

Just kidding, what you say is correct though rmilbeck, tubes make a difference, but like I said, they are a detail.
So they only really matter much if you also pay attention to the other details (strings, pickups, cables ..)
At least, that's how I feel about it.

 

[m0jo]

I agree. Preamp tubes are just one ingredient in the tone recipe.

Bingo, good analogy.

 

[Mattfig]

Aaah nooooo! I'm surrounded by old guys talking about NOS tubes!
:lol:

Hey! I resemble that remark! :lol:

 

[Katash]

What experiences have you guys made with a 5751?
Have one here and I'm going to try it in a stonerverb tomorrow (no its 2:19 am and hey, I dont want to try it over a speaker sim and headphones ) :wink:

 

[Mattfig]

5751s are great...Especially Jan GE....Well actually, that's all I buy...Tried some other version but JAN GE is where it's at...Anyway, it can do wonders in a high gain module...Especially if you put a high gain tube in V2...High gain like rated as such...I think most places add 2 bucks to the tube to rate it as such...Paired with 5751, you get most of the gain back and get a bunch more versatility...

Of course some high gainers don't sound right with a 5751...I'm afraid the Stonerverb may not like it...All a matter of opinion of course....My experience is that British based modules don't like low gainers in V1..It seems that mid range that makes them so special is kinda weak with 5751s...They need a standard EH or Tung Sol...If you ask my wife, I'm wrong 100% of the time...So take my opinion for what it is...

All true clean modules benefit from one or both V1 and V2 replaced with 5751s..At the very least in V1...More headroom and very nice tone...

 

[speedemon]

Yeah,

I have a pair of GT 5751s in my Tweed, and JAN phillips in the PI. I just got a pair of GE 5 stars...if anyone wants a pair of GT 5751s. I think they would be a great V2 in a module if you wanted to clean up a little.

I think the 5751 is a little better for cleaning up, as the 12ay7 sounds awesome, but loses too much volume.

Alright, keep rolling them tooobs.


Seeya!

 

[audiomidijace]

The kicker with tubes is there is significant parameter variation within a single make/model...which means one Tung-sol may not sound the same as the next...to compound that, how are you measuring whether the tube you are putting in is 'good' ?

Also, a Tung-Sol might be great in a Marshall circuit but not so good in a Fender...example chosen at random.

I read recently how someone got significant changes in their Benzin by changing tubes...it was very responsive to them. I changed v1 in mine with 2 different tubes and found it made no significant difference...who is 'right' or is it just how the module was dialed/a 'lucky' combination of parameters

The end result is it requires a lot of experimentation...and gets expensive

Agreed.
And while we're at it, lets be honest, there is also a certain percentage of perceived tone that is all in the listeners head.
If you think your $40 n.o.s. tube is going to sound better, it will sound better to you, whether it actually does or not.

I think there is an abundant amount of self importance on forums regarding the ability to properly define good tone.
Guys claiming to hear things just so they can come across as an authority.

$.03,
R~

I don't know man, that sounds like kind of a lame thing to say. I don't care how much I've spent on a module, a tube, a cable, etc. I listen with honest ears and if I don't perceive it as an improvement I send it on and let the next guy try it. Just because I don't like something, doesn't mean it sucks.
"claiming to hear things?" I've been using Elixer cables for the last few years because they sound better to me. If you go out and buy an Elixer cable and don't like it, it doesn't make me wrong.
But what are forums for if not to share your experience and opinions?

 

[crankyrayhanky]

I agree with both of the above ^^, lol

 

[Daryl]

My main concerns are reliability and a low noise floor. I like the idea of being able to use a tube long enough to get used to what it does before it dies and also I like it to be quiet enough to use in a studio application. My .02
Not disagreeing with anyone. I'm just not a tube nerd.
Yet....

 

[Mattfig]

I agree with Jace on this one...It's all personal opinion and I, for one, am thankful for all the OPINIONS posted here regarding tubes, EQ, speakers, and many other important variables...If someone asks a question and gets differing opinions, that's good...We all perceive tone differently...If we didn't, we'd all play the same guitar thru the same amp and hear what we want to hear...This forum is obviously filled with tone hunters who will stop at nothing to get the tone they seek...That's why MTS is so valuable to so many of us...It's a platform in which to enhance or change tone very easily and drastically, if needed...An abundance of opinions is a positive thing...Self-importance and experience in tinkering are two very different things...A confident opinion is simply that...You can choose to learn from others' experiences or blow them off as trying to be an authority...My thought is that you gain very little from the latter...Just my .02...

Oh yeah, and anyone who thinks their opinion is worth .03 seems like they may be at risk of falling into the "authority" category... :wink: