Questions to RD/Rich

[Smokey]

This one might be for RD/Rich, but keen to hear what others think.

From what I gather here on the Forum, the majority of the Randall modules get modded (Tighter bass, more warmth / clarity, different preamp tubes, etc). If this is the case, then why didn't Randall spend a bit more time on R & D and send modules out with more appropriate tones as standard (Eg Recto muddy bottom end tightened up)?
I'd be willing to part a little extra $ to get components such as
-Orange drops
-Extra Bass switch and tonestack switching options that Pete has done
as standard in all modules.
Majority of the standard modules do not have the clarity of the Signature modules. Grail, Mr Scary and 1086 have much more clarity than Recto, Plexi or XTC (The Brown has good clarity out of standard mods I have tried). If the Grail is how the Recto was meant to sound, then why not spend the time and extra $ and release it that way to begin with?
I say this with regard to thinking about the modules which are going to be released in the future and I presume that they are mainly going to be signature modules (Kirk Hammett, Phill Collen, Brad Delson).
Rich, is this the future of MTS modules - only signature artist modules released from now on? or are there other non signature modules in the pipeline?

Let me just say that I give Randall a standing ovation and cheer my lungs out for putting out such a awesome product, and for allowing us the freedom to combine our favourite Clean, Dirty and Lead tones in the one amp / rig. I love having the freedom to to retube and bias my amp without having to go to a tech and having so many different tones available at sliding in a different module (this is fantastic freedom with recording guitar parts).
This topic is not a dig at Randall in any way, just an open question / discussion in terms of some areas which I see as potentially hindering the MTS line from being regarded as one of the best products in the amp market place (a couple of tweaks can turn a great product into an outstanding product). Mind you some of the artists which are now using MTS gear hugely boosts the profile, but even Brad Delson had all his modules modded by Dave Friedman.
From my experience other guitarists look down upon the Randall brand (mostly narrow minded purists who own Marshall / Mesa / Fender) and who have not heard one of these animals in action. I love the tone of my RM100 and laugh at those who don't know what they're missing out on.

Finally, Rich, have you guys thought about offering talent like Pete (Okstrat) a contract in Randall R&D in creating / tweaking new modules and tones?
Cheers

 

[Chad]

I'd say there are several reasons. Here are a couple guesses on my part:

1. Cost. If they started doing all the switches and what-not that Pete is doing, it would drive the price of the modules up quite a bit....possibly enough that it would hurt sales of the modules.

2. Some people are happy with the factory modules. Not everybody likes/wants the same thing.

 

[chasing shadows]

Actually that is the cool thing about the factory modules, you can customize them to the sound you are looking for.

 

[tung]

I just want to add that you guys are on the money as far as the product goes. I love the flexibility of my RM100, and I've owned all the major brands mentioned, none of them offer the versatility of the MTS.
I agree that tone is a subjective thing, and not everyone want the same thing out of a module. That's why having these Dave Friedman/ Pete Turley mods available as options, such as Custom Shop type thing would be awesome.

 

[Anonymous]

1. Cost

2. Majority of Randalls customers dont obsess, like all of us, with tone. Most of users on this board are somewhat skilled in their abilities to hear certain things that others may not. I would venture to say that the majority of purchasing Randall users have not, or can not disern the subtle differences modifications make. That is why the Egnater line is more in line with "fine tuned" Take a SL + do the Turley Mods to it and you are getting close to the Egnater line of SL modules.

3. Mass production vs. Custom production

 

[Smokey]

Understand cost factors of mass producing, and I agree that the flexibility to the individual user is a huge plus. Being able to tweak your own sound, Eg One player wants SL+ with looser bass response, another wants it tight as hell.
I guess in terms of refinements, majority of players who would choose a Recto type sound would want a tight bass response for Metal, hence the module either gets modded to tighter cap settings or is not popular and doesn't sell many units (unless that is the aim to make more profit from consumers buying the signature modules).
I think what I was trying to say is what Tung has said, with now that the product has been out in the market for a while, and Randall can see trends in what the players are doing in terms of modding their rigs, why not look at now make some of these common moddifications as standard to enhance the product.
Maybe I'm a fellow tone freak and require things tweaked to the degree where it's sonic nirvana.
Given all that I have said, I will still use my stock XTC happily untill I can send it to either Pete or Dave to be modded.

 

[Chad]

now that the product has been out in the market for a while, and Randall can see trends in what the players are doing in terms of modding their rigs, why not look at now make some of these common moddifications as standard to enhance the product.

They already have to some degree. A lot of the modules that used to ship with a .0047u cap in C3 now ship with a .0022u cap. Also, they changed the resistor in the clean modules to eliminate the distortion problem.

One module that could definitely be modified in production is the SL+. I don't think I've heard one person who has done the JCM800 tone stack mod say they preferred the stock module.

 

[Smokey]

now that the product has been out in the market for a while, and Randall can see trends in what the players are doing in terms of modding their rigs, why not look at now make some of these common moddifications as standard to enhance the product.

They already have to some degree. A lot of the modules that used to ship with a .0047u cap in C3 now ship with a .0022u cap. Also, they changed the resistor in the clean modules to eliminate the distortion problem.

Cheers Chad, I was not aware of the Cap revision in production.

 

[RD/Rich]

Chad kinda said it already...Doug has done a great job of tweaking modules to make them better over the years and make changes when needed. I also think that the majority of modules don't get modded. There are lots of people who don't know about the mods or like the modules just as they are.

I think that being able to do these mods is just another great thing about MTS. It's inexpensive to swap out a cap here and there and pretty it's pretty easy too. Guys like Dave Freidman, Bob Bradshaw, and FJA Mods have made a living on doing mods to amps which can get pretty expensive and there is a certain knowledge base that is needed to do so. By breaking an amp down to it's individual channels, it's easier for anyone to try different parts in thier module, where they may not have done that in the past because of thier lack of experiance w/ amps or cost.

You had mentioned that you would be willing to pay more for certain parts and I think a lot of us would, but not everyone. The thing we have to keep in mind is the cost. A higher grade cap may not cost too much more (and Doug has mentioned that this will be happening soon), but adding all of the extra options really adds up. I think a standard upgrade w/ all of the bells and whistles is around $130 (sorry Pete if that's wrong). That would mean most modules would sell for around $300+. The great thing about the modules is how inexpensive they are and adding all of the extras really jacks the price up and not everyone will care.

As far as Pete goes, Doug and I really dig what he is doing. He really takes things to the next level. I can't speak for Pete but I have no problem drop shipping a module to him to mod for a customer before they get it, so having the Pete mod right out the gate is VERY possible and pretty affordable. I do know that there is a dealer who really digs what Pete does and they are going to try selling pre-modded modules in the store, so once again it will be possible for anyone to get the upgrades right away.

With our signature modules, there is a lot of time an effort that goes into getting the sounds the artist wants. Usually these start off as one of our standard modules and the tweeking starts. I wouldn't say that the Grail is "how the Recto should have sounded," its what George Lynch wanted for that type of tone. It's not so much of spending the time and money to do a module "right." The standard modules are done when their done and we think that they rock. For artists modules its the same, the module is done when the artist says its done. As far as Brad goes he was going for a lot of very specific sounds and the modules were the basic pallete to start w/. Dave really helped nail down all of the specific sounds Brad was looking for.

Finally we have quite a few new modules coming, both signature and new standards. As long as people keeping digging' MTS, we will continue to turn out new and innovative amps and modules. All of us here really appreciate all of the love you guys give and also the critism so we know what we are doing right and what we can do to make it better.[/quote]

 

[gtr31]

Rich I know you cant name them off .
But just out of curiousity how Many new mods are you talking .like 5 or 6 including sigs??

Btw thats great for you guys encouraging and helping Pete .

 

[chasing shadows]

I also think it is great that someone from Randall is on this forum and actually responds to our questions and concerns. I have been on a lot of forums where there is no response from anyone from the company that the forum is supporting. So a big kudos to rd/rich for all that he contributes to this forum.

 

[okstrat]

Many thanks for the mention in this thread guys. Too kind of you.

People are always going to want to mod their stuff - I would wager even if Randall was doing the modules 'out of the box' modded, they would only be able to offer a limited array of mods - otherwise you'd have 3 of this module or 4 of that... small companies/individuals doing mods have a huge advantage over Randall just in that if someone contacts me with a mod idea and I think it's doable, I can act on it. Doing one module is no big deal for me or Dave Friedman or whoever... but Randall can't afford to do that. They need to focus on products that will satisfy most of the users instead of the hardcore folk like we have here.

Plus I get guys all the time that like what I do, but need it tweaked just a little bit more in one direction or the other - no big deal if I'm doing one at a time, but again, if you're mass producing these it's not a good thing to do. Even something as minor as an LED color change would be a nightmare for a large corporation like Randall. Heck, I can't even imagine the stuff Rich and Doug have to go through to make a production change like the 150 ohm resistors feeding the optoisolators or changes in C3... if Randall is anything like the large company I work for, it takes miles of paperwork, red tape and some virgin blood to get any changes made to a product once it's rolled out.

Pete

 

[camitchell]

.

Great thread.

I have five or six modules that have been modded by Dave Friedman and they all sound better.

I also have a few stock modules that I'm really happy with as well. I think the tweed module came out great and have never felt the need to send it out to be modded. In fact, I talked to Dave Friedman about it one time and he mentioned he thought they had done a good job on it as well.

One of the coolest things I thought would happen from the very beginning was that I figured people would start modding modules on their own.

Which I think is great! All good products benefit from being hot rodded

This forum has done a good job explaining DIY mods too. It makes for a good community. I also like the fact that Randall licensed the design from Egnater. A very smart move on both their parts and hopefully it is paying off for both parties.

From what I can see, the concept is gaining momentum and really getting some positive attention. Hopefully this will lead to good things.

 

[RD/Rich]

Rich I know you cant name them off .
But just out of curiousity how Many new mods are you talking .like 5 or 6 including sigs??

Like 5 or 6 including sigs...possibly more.

 

[Smokey]

Rich, thanks for responding with so much info, much appreciated. I share exactly the same thoughts as other on here - it is so great to have a someone from Randall respond with info to whatever the query or question.

Completely understand how what could seem to me like a few small costs, could push the product's price up dramatically and can also see how it is far easier for Pete and Dave to mod one-off modules to individual specs easily. Also being in Australia and seeing how much cheaper modules are in the USA comparitively (the equivelent of $420USD for signature modules or $340USD for stock out here in Aust), I can see how a few small costs could reduce the availability of the MTS line to the worldwide market.
The thoughts in my original posting had crossed my mind, and I assumed they had also crossed the minds of other Randall users, so I thought I'd enquire. Also thought that it might make an interesting discussion thread among the users.

My comment with regard to "Grail being the way the Recto was meant to sound" was unfair, tone is very subjective - what sounds great to one person, doesn't sound great to other set of ears. What sounds huge through one quad, sounds completely different through another quad / different speakers, etc. My definition of "clarity" could be another persons "muddy" and vice-versa.
Modules sound different with different nuances due to tweaking by Randall R&D dept. If there wasn't this great easily modifyable base to begin with, then Pete and Dave wouldn't be able to be doing what they are and pushing the boundaries and expectations of the MTS line.
I'm sorry if my comments came across as being very judgemental on the hard work put in by yourself, Doug and the other Randall staff. I (like many others) am using some stock modules in my setup, and I am more than happy with the tone I am pulling. Again I appluad the awesome MTS product line and can't wait to see what's around the corner.

Pete, thanks for the insight, I love your work (Virgin blood ) Ha ha.

 

[kc2eeb]

A very important factor in dynamic response and distortion level is how the guitar is set up. To simplify, the higher the strings and the lower the pickups, the greater the response to picking dynamics and control of preamp distortion with your picking hand.

 

[khingpynn]

That generally applies but is dependant on pickup type. Low to medium out put yes but high output no really... also if there is active cct's theres a different dynamic.

just my two cents... Khing

 

[Zack]

Another thing is Randall can't put Egnater out of business. I mean, he designed this amp and builds a better version of it, and if Randall mass produced a version that was as good as/better than Egnater, he would be finished (unless his royalties were super huge).

 

[khingpynn]

Who knows maybe Randall and Egnater have hands in each others pockets... who knows and it really is not our business. I'm sure Egnater and Randall have a harmonious and mutually benifitial business relationship.

khing

 

[bruce egnater]

We do have a great relationship with Randall. With the modular lines, we each have our own sounds, our own features and sort of our own customers. Between the two companies, we cover a very wide range of prices and sounds that we hope keeps everyone happy. We always support Randall and their customers. We've also design other products for Randall in addition to the MTS line. The X2 (Discontinued Dimebag model), the T2 and X2 and lots of other things. You are correct, we have a very harmonious relationship.


Bruce Egnater