RM4 Versus M4

[ttosh]

I am new to the modular world but I have been doing some researching and I am set on giving this a try for my 2012 rig and see how it does for the scenarios that fit me. I am pretty set on getting a RT2-50 Power Amp for the studio and live use. I am debating between the RM4 and M4 though. I like the concept of dual channel modules but the first 4 modules I am moving forward on this week are the from clean/mid to rock/metal and beyond, All Salvation Modified the Marsh-oldano, Custom 3, H-Watt and a tossup with the loneclean and matchvox. This is dream land time, all these tones and I still have money left over after the amp and power amp. The CCV would have put me out around $4grand with everything, the Marsha would have had me down $3500 and my last amp I was using before i took a year break to work on software design and music thoery was a diezel herbert. I can see how these little guys can get very addictive. I have a decent studio which I will be putting down some covers and oritinals this year, my best triend has a great studio and place to play so hopefully I can get these tones out more and more. Each person room, technicque, influences affect the final tone. We need more good clips out there.

Okay you have all read enough but one more thing. Do I keep the Eventide Eclipse and add a new G Sustem to it and use a Mark L audio loooper and dual buffer to run the units in parallel with each other and the m4 or rm4

Enough rambling, I have a M4 setup as a posibillity, if you have one or know of anbody that has one set me up, I am pretty close to being ready to buy!!!!!

Hope to hang here a lot and get to know you guys and see what the interests are over here, etc...

 

[drewiv]

Welcome to the land of affordable tone. Crossing over from Rig Talk to the dark side. LOL

Nice to see you over here, it's pretty awesome. You won't find a nicer group of guys on the net.

I've never owned an M4, so I can't really compare the two.

 

[HughJasol]

Glad to see you made it over here . . . welcome! 8)

You already know my take on this topic from our discussion over on Rig-Talk, so I won't beat a dead horse. But whatever you decide, you're going to love MTS - even once you realize you've become a module junkie (which is not a matter of "if", just "when")! :lol:

 

[Whoopysnorp]

I've never owned a dual-channel module, or a platform capable of using them, so I can't really comment from an informed point of view. However, I've never really seen much of the attraction. The two channels use the same tone stack, so all you're really changing between the channels is gain. I do have a couple of modded modules that sometimes make me wish I had access to radically different settings on them simultaneously, but that isn't even necessarily possible with dual-channel modules because they share EQ settings. Give me a three- or four-channel MTS platform with a reasonably diverse selection of modded modules any day.

 

[JeffHenneman]

I'm with whoop on this one. I have a mamba s.e. and I wish I had two of them. There is some great tones that reside in this module, but can only access one at a time.
I am always messing with that module and it is alot of fun but wish I had one for my core sound and one to experiment with. The dual channel modules would not help me with that since they share the EQ.

 

[HughJasol]

The two channels use the same tone stack, so all you're really changing between the channels is gain.

Yes, same tone stack, but separate GAIN and MASTER.

For strictly recording purposes, I would agree that the dual-channel amp has no real advantage, other than being able to access channel B of a dual-channel module without modding.

But the dual-channel amp's advantages become apparent in a live setting. There are a couple of modules that have identical A & B channels - the ERECT, the now-obsolete DLX, and the D/D (which is really a modded T/D). I use the ERECT in my live rig. I can set one channel for rhythm, and set the other channel to have more gain and volume for playing leads. The DLX can be used in the same fashion; obviously not the gain of the ERECT, but I can have my sparkling clean on one channel, and get the other channel somewhat gritty (I now use the BMAN instead of the DLX).

Obviously, having the two channels of a dual-channel module is not the same as having two single-channel modules; but that wasn't the intention either. The idea was for the two channels to be voiced similarly enough so that they could share the same tone stack; and for the most part it works (although the C.O.D. is a little freaky). I have owned all of the Egnater dual-channel modules at one time or another, and only the T/D didn't allow a compatible EQ setting that works adequately across both channels (many others reported the same results with that module, and in fact that's most likely why the "D/D" was born). I also had to work a little at getting the VX channels to work well together, and it required a slight tweak on the BRIGHT capacitor values to get it to my liking.

If you plan to use an MTS rig in a live setting, the (very slight) extra cost of the M4 over the RM4 is well worth it and a no-brainer IMO. Of course, the price difference between the RM50/RM100 and the MOD50/MOD100 is quite substantial, so you'll have to decide if it's worth it to you. I love my 6-channel Egnater-modded RM100, and I love the 8 channels my M4 gives me while taking up only 2 spaces in my rack. But mostly, I love the flexibility I have to use all the single-channel modules everyone raves about here, the complete stable of Bruce's awesome-sounding handbuilt stock modules, and the limited number of modded dual-channel modules offered by Salvation (the Salvation Dual Salvado Deluxe? Fagetaboutit! and the Dual Matchvox is on the way), Dave Friedman (with the Hairy Brown Eye, Brown Eye, and C45 mods), and very soon Jaded Faith (I'll be sending Rob my dual ERECT this week so he can create the first dual-channel Erect mod).

 

[crankyrayhanky]

number of modded dual-channel modules offered by Salvation (the Salvation Dual Salvado Deluxe? Fagetaboutit! and the Dual Matchvox is on the way), Dave Friedman (with the Hairy Brown Eye, Brown Eye, and C45 mods), and very soon Jaded Faith (I'll be sending Rob my dual ERECT this week so he can create the first dual-channel Erect mod

This sounds awesome!

 

[JeffHenneman]

Good point HughJasol. I liked you pointed out the advantages of the dual channels, unlike negative me. Haha
If i remember corrctly , the channels can be switched with midi right?

 

[ttosh]

Hughjasol nice to see you over here. Nice to see everyone in here. I have been searching the forum and researching all over for the past 2 weeks. I have a M4 lined up, hoping it will pan out. Also a RT2-50 from the same guy. Crossing fingers. I also am getting ready to send Anthony at Salvation the starting funds for my first 4 core modules I want. He has donors in stock so my wait should be 4-6 weeks including shipping based on what he told me. While I wait I am going to try and grab two Egnater dual Channels, one that can do clean to gritty clean and one that does mid to 80s type gain.

If anybody is interested here are the 4 core modules I am getting from Anthony. If anybody has input on any of them being good or bad let me know before this weekend. I will Paypal him then, and I am stuck with these. I will be using them for recording at home and playing out live this coming year.

The H-Watt for cleans and light crunch. As amazing as this is this module has a point to point wired tone stack and two linked channels. The sound clips of this sounds percussive, clean and so real to life it is scary. The sound clips of all 4 modules I plan to get are excellent. However they are also well produced so I am going to just stay optimistic until they arrive.

Second is the Duoplex which is his version of a Plexi with parallel or stacked channels. Gain knob per channel, JTM/TCM voicing switch and a stacked switch to run the channels in series like Randy did on his early Marshall's with Ozzy. Again sounds very cool and perfect for low/mid gains and gritty cleans.

Third is the Custom 3 which is his version of channel 2 and 3 of the CAE 3+ preamp. Has a switch for SE and NON SE switch known as the Dave/Marty switch since Megadeth is known for using the real CAE preamp on some of their best work. That does not hurt since they are one of my favorite bands. Also has Tight switch, nose gate switch and bright switch.

Last is the Mamba based on the high gain channel of the Framus cobra. A Recto on steroids. Custom snakeskin faceplate with kill(adds gain and brings in tightness and offers a slight mid boost), tight, notch and punch switches (revoice different areas of the mids).

Thanks again for the welcome, I am glad to be hanging here, it seems like a cool place with some very smart MTS guys!!!

 

[HughJasol]

Good point HughJasol. I liked you pointed out the advantages of the dual channels, unlike negative me. Haha
If i remember corrctly , the channels can be switched with midi right?

Hey, negatives are just as valid as positives, and it's fair to point out both . . .

And yes, channel switching is done via MIDI.

 

[HughJasol]

I have a M4 lined up, hoping it will pan out. Also a RT2-50 from the same guy. Crossing fingers.

Good luck with the M4 & RT2/50 - hope you get it, as it's a killer combinatiion.

I also am getting ready to send Anthony at Salvation the starting funds for my first 4 core modules I want. He has donors in stock so my wait should be 4-6 weeks including shipping based on what he told me.

In my experience, Anthony usually doesn't ask for payment until he's done with the work and he's ready to ship. Also, be prepared to wait a long time for return shipping. While shipping from the US to Czech has always taken 8-10 days, the return trip has been a different story. My Salvado Deluxe took 5-6 weeks to get here from the time Anthony shipped it back to me; so you just never know with US Customs . . .

While I wait I am going to try and grab two Egnater dual Channels, one that can do clean to gritty clean and one that does mid to 80s type gain.

For the clean I would recommend either the BMAN or the VX (those can be hard to come by - I havn't seen a BMAN in a while); depends on whether you prefer a Vox tone or a Fender tone. For the 80's hi-gain you probably want the SL2 or SL2X (probably the easiest of all modules to find), although the EG3/4 would also cover that territory, and the EG5 or ERECT might be viable higher-gain candidates too.


Of the 4 Salvation modules you've listed, I've only owned the Custom 3; but it sounds like you've much of the spectrum covered. I've got the H-Watt high on my want list too. And I've been wanting to try out something in the Mamba/Chupacabra/Angel range as well . . .

 

[ttosh]

I have a M4 lined up, hoping it will pan out. Also a RT2-50 from the same guy. Crossing fingers.

Good luck with the M4 & RT2/50 - hope you get it, as it's a killer combinatiion.

I also am getting ready to send Anthony at Salvation the starting funds for my first 4 core modules I want. He has donors in stock so my wait should be 4-6 weeks including shipping based on what he told me.

In my experience, Anthony usually doesn't ask for payment until he's done with the work and he's ready to ship. Also, be prepared to wait a long time for return shipping. While shipping from the US to Czech has always taken 8-10 days, the return trip has been a different story. My Salvado Deluxe took 5-6 weeks to get here from the time Anthony shipped it back to me; so you just never know with US Customs . . .

While I wait I am going to try and grab two Egnater dual Channels, one that can do clean to gritty clean and one that does mid to 80s type gain.

For the clean I would recommend either the BMAN or the VX (those can be hard to come by - I havn't seen a BMAN in a while); depends on whether you prefer a Vox tone or a Fender tone. For the 80's hi-gain you probably want the SL2 or SL2X (probably the easiest of all modules to find), although the EG3/4 would also cover that territory, and the EG5 or ERECT might be viable higher-gain candidates too.


Of the 4 Salvation modules you've listed, I've only owned the Custom 3; but it sounds like you've much of the spectrum covered. I've got the H-Watt high on my want list too. And I've been wanting to try out something in the Mamba/Chupacabra/Angel range as well . . .

I sent Rob at Jaded Faith an email as well, telling him what I am looking at from Salvation and comparing some of his mods that compare. His 1959RR looks very cool as does his SLO mod. I would love it if his XTC came close to the real thing. I am a big Bogner fan, have owned a Fish and 20th XTC with EL34's and yet to hear a clip of any MTS mods that capture that woody Bogner tone.

Have you dealt much with Jaded Faith? You can PM me as discussing builders might be best left offline. Anthony seems very cool, but Rob is in the US and seems to be a bit less expensive and most of his clips seem to be less produced so probably a bit close to the actual tones of the mods outside of the production in recordings.

There are a lot of RM4's out there also. So if the M4 falls through I may go that route. It is going to take me about 4-6 weeks to get things setup anyway. I was going to grab a used Eclipse as I have always loved the Eventide reverbs, delays and pitch harmonies. However I did not like the switching lag for live use.

I am pretty sure I am going to give the G System another try with the M4 and see if I can get Laird over on the TC forum to give me some tips since that is what he uses. I like the G Systems delays a lot, the verbs are cool, actually I live most of the effects except the pitch harmonization, it is really weak. But for the price getting a MIDI foot controller that looks as cool as it is rugged for using along with the 4 loops for drive or pre modulation and power for them if they are not to power intensive. Add the insert loop, tuner and fact it can be racked and only a cat 5 has to be ran on stage. Well it is hard to beat, as long as one can get it setup and be pretty transparent. I still like the ambient effects of the Eventide stuff so possibly adding a Space to the mix with the G System as an option. I wish it could happen overnight but it is going to be a few month process and I have to focus on the stuff to get me playing out again as all I have now is guitar and computer with studio monitors. Not fun!!!!

 

[The Rossness]

Those are some expensive amps you mentioned. I'd love to try a marsha some day.

I'm on rig talk too and while most guys seem to like the Axe 2 for modeling stuff, I prefer the MTS system. I've played the Salvation MashAll+, Custom 3 and Matchvox. Anthony's work seems far superior to other moders. I haven't played the Egnater stuff, so I can't really comment on it, but I do think the 2 channel mods are cool. The salvation stuff is cool, but as previously mentioned, you can't switch channels via a footswitch.

As for the RM4 or the M4. If I were you, I'd plan on getting more modules than you envisioned, so I'd get 2 RM4's or the RM1250 or something like that.

 

[datriani]

I've had both and I think the pros and cons have been completely covered by everyone else. My personal preference is the M4 because it's nice to having the extra flexibility in a live situation but you can always throw in a OD or boost pedal to get that extra gain for the channel. I currently have a very simple set up with just an M4 and GForce and a GC Pro controlling both. I have various levels of gain with no noticeable volume difference but set up the G Force's Drive effect to be a solo/volume boost. It works well and when I kick the Drive on, it actually cleans up the gain a bit so it's great for leads.

I have been toying with selling the M4 because although it's great for live situation and the best preamp I've used, I've been using a Roland GR55 (guitar synth) with the band I'm in and the M4 is just sitting in my guitar room. Hit me if you're looking for a Dual Channel M4

 

[m0jo]

most of his clips seem to be less produced so probably a bit close to the actual tones of the mods outside of the production in recordings.

Actually, in my experience the Salvations sound very much like the recording, many (maybe all?) of these guitar tracks are untreated. Of course I can't compare the two (having only experience with Salvation), but this is something I can confirm. For some "honest" comparisons, search for Mike P's clips, he has recording of both.

By the way, about the dual channels: Anthony has built some dual channel mods for Dutch customers (sadly not me ) where he has done other things than a gain change.
For instance, his dual Mamba switches between the Diff switch modes on the SE version. Giving basically two very different sounds. The Dual Twinface switches between Twin and Deluxe modes, Dual Mash-all switches Stage 1 of the two stages. This can most probably be done with other options too (but I cannot say which, some are more complicated and will be hard to switch this way).

To be honest, although I like the idea of the dual channels .. I'm not sure yet. 4 channels should really be enough, I already get 9 different tones out of my guitar (without counting volume and tone knobs!) and many other from pedals and effects..

 

[Mattfig]

Heya ttosh!

Glad you're posting away! Great place for MTS enthusiasts - of which I predict you will become...

I know we've discussed this before but I just wanted to mention that you can get so many options via toggles on singles...When you contact modders, see how crazy they can get...You would be amazed at some of the **** these guys make and can do!

 

[Daryl]

The two channels use the same tone stack, so all you're really changing between the channels is gain.

Yes, same tone stack, but separate GAIN and MASTER.
.

I may be totally missing something, but couldn't similar results be obtained on single channel mods with a boost/OD in front of the amp?
BTW: Welcome to the MTS family Ttosh!!

 

[m0jo]

The two channels use the same tone stack, so all you're really changing between the channels is gain.

Yes, same tone stack, but separate GAIN and MASTER.
.

I may be totally missing something, but couldn't similar results be obtained on single channel mods with a boost/OD in front of the amp?

Kind of, but you won't have independant volumes.
Also: I believe they switch a gainstage too. This is the "different" sound between modes.

 

[Daryl]

The two channels use the same tone stack, so all you're really changing between the channels is gain.

Yes, same tone stack, but separate GAIN and MASTER.
.

I may be totally missing something, but couldn't similar results be obtained on single channel mods with a boost/OD in front of the amp?

Kind of, but you won't have independant volumes.
Also: I believe they switch a gainstage too. This is the "different" sound between modes.

OK...So I was missing something. Thanks, bro. Is anyone still waiting for the E2 to come out? 2 Modded dual channels in a single rack space sounds a lot more appealing to me now!

 

[m0jo]

The two channels use the same tone stack, so all you're really changing between the channels is gain.

Yes, same tone stack, but separate GAIN and MASTER.
.

I may be totally missing something, but couldn't similar results be obtained on single channel mods with a boost/OD in front of the amp?

Kind of, but you won't have independant volumes.
Also: I believe they switch a gainstage too. This is the "different" sound between modes.

OK...So I was missing something. Thanks, bro. Is anyone still waiting for the E2 to come out? 2 Modded dual channels in a single rack space sounds a lot more appealing to me now!

Yeeeeees!! And don't forget Anthony's wizardry with them!
His duals actually switch modes or other functions.