Telefunken Tubes

[ricky]

I was looking into tubes and ran across Telefunken 12ax7 tubes. They are generally about three times more expensive than EH, JJ, Ruby, etc.
Has anyone used them? I was considering trying them in my MOD50 but before I spend that much for tubes I would like to hear what anyone thinks of them.

 

[lebobl]

Have not had the opportunity to try them myself, but some feel they are too transparent and polite for guitar amps and are better suited to home audio. That being said, many feel that the long plates in these tubes and others makes for a more 3D and open sound when used in the phase inverter slot specifically.

The best NOS tube reviews out there are on the Watford Valves website and from The Tube King who is a dealer on eBay. I would recommend reading through those guides in order to hone in on exactly what you are looking for tone-wise. Good luck!

 

[lebobl]

From The Tube King:

"Telefunken 12AX7s are low-noise tubes that are known for their transparency, wide-band resolution, clarity and accuracy. Many audiophiles favor them for this purpose. I do not recommend Telefunken in most guitar amp applications to use as the main tube... they are too clean and 'clinical' this application. However, Telefunkens are a GREAT 'phase-invertor' tube. Use this tube in the phase-invertor pre-amp slot (usually the closest pre-amp slot next to the power tubes). Many people notice a significant upgrade in tone, feel and string-to-string clarity when using a Tele 12AX7 in the phase invertor-slot! For this reason, the Tele 12AX7 is one of my Top 3 choices for use in a phase-invertor."

 

[withmittens]

I wonder if this holds true for vintage ones, too.

 

[lebobl]

As Telefunkens are long out of production, all of them are vintage. I admit I don't have any personal experience using them, but I am just passing along what I have read on several sites.

I have used a bunch of Ei Yugos, which were produced on tooling purchased from Telefunken, however, they are not the same, and are known as "Telefunken on steroids," and many feel they are better in guitar amplifiers.

The Eis are very well regarded as preamp tubes. Eric Johnson uses them in his Tube Drivers, and George Lynch is known to covet them. I have heard that they are Dr Z's favorites as well.

If you can find some "pre-war" Ei Yugos, they are the best. Much better quality control and less microphonics, better sounding. They are fairly hard to find. Definitely a quality vintage tube for a variety of applications.

 

[withmittens]

isn't this a new telefunken make?

https://tubedepot.com/products/telefunken-black-diamond-ecc83-12ax7?gclid=CjwKCAiAzuPuBRAIEiwAkkmOSIGx8EpnbTc1A9xZvjGNNI_Eq1ggYuDj9RRV7KsmB2t5hJCZ4ExEUhoC23kQAvD_BwE

 

[lebobl]

I hadn't actually seen those sold anywhere before. However, they are not at all the same as German Telefunkens. Those are just relabeled JJ tubes.

It appears that the only difference between those and regular JJs is that they are cryogenically treated and burned in. The word is that they are the same construction.

I bet they are like the Mullard reissues, and neither sound like or are constructed like their namesake. I'm sure they are fine tubes (JJs are pretty widely known to be the most dependable and consistent current production tubes), but they shouldn't be compared to the vintage Telefunkens.

I admit I may have misread the original post. When the OP was talking about expensive tubes, I assumed they were talking about vintage Telefunkens. That's my mistake if I went off on a tangent, but I hope I shared some useful information.

 

[withmittens]

Good to know. I do have a handful of vintage Telefunken 12ax7 tubes. Dumpster diving outside an old building. I've tried them in various positions but never heard much of a difference. I don't think I tried the phase inverter position.

 

[ricky]

Wanna sell one? I would love to try one out!

 

[withmittens]

oh, man, I guess. I'll need to test them again. Let me get them together and make sense of them and I'll pm you?

 

[ricky]

Thanks! That would be great!
No hurry....

 

[ricky]

So if these not "real" telefunkens and are re-branded JJ's? Which JJ's are they and is it cheaper to buy the JJ tubes?

https://tubedepot.com/products/telefunken-black-diamond-ecc83-12ax7?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIwLDAtPqt5gIVGh-tBh0VHwAZEAQYASABEgJokPD_BwE

 

[lebobl]

From their website, they are just relabeled, hand-selected, and cryogenically treated JJs.

https://www.telefunken-elektroakustik.com/telefunken-introduces-new-black-diamond-tubes-summer-namm

"Manufactured in partnership with JJ Tubes in Slovakia, each Black Diamond tube is meticulously measured for all critical parameters of performance including transconductance, gain, noise, and microphonics."

It looks like these have gold pins, so I would assume they are the gold pin versions of JJs. Supposedly those are more rigorously selected anyway without the relabelling.

I'm not an expert, but I would think buying selected JJ tubes from a reputable dealer (many recommend Eurotubes through I have no personal experience with them) would be nearly equivalent. You can do some research, but I don't think cryogenic treatment does much for tone based on what I have read.

So, my educated guess is that you could obtain a similar tube buying a gold pin JJ from a reputable dealer, and pay less than buying a "Telefunken" that is not a true vintage tube nor constructed the same.

Alternatively, if you want a selected tube, you could consider Mesa 12ax7s, which I believe are hand selected JJs (though without gold pins if that matters to you).

 

[lebobl]

Otherwise, if you're looking for a current production tube for the phase inverter slot, many people (including myself) like the Sovtek LPS. Long plates and low noise because of the spiral filament. I would recommend balanced triodes for the phase inverter so that the signal is split equally to the power amp.

 

[ricky]

Thanks a lot! I really appreciate your take on this!

 

[The Rossness]

theor mic's are crazy expensive. Good, but expensive. Never tried their valves.

 

[Esppse]

Can someone demo the Telefunkens against stock tubes?