Treble and Bright caps

[Deisel401]

Hi everyone. I've read a few posts about changing the Treble and Bright caps to make the module smoother. My local electronics shop actually has a bunch of Silver Micas. The guy said he hasn't sold any in almost a decade. So he was nice enough to give me a random selection ( including what i asked for ) for less than 15 bucks. Probably at least 3 or 4 dozen. Anyway, could someone please specify for me where exactly these caps are and the values. I'm definitely sending out both my SL+ and Blackface to be modded in a few months when I can afford it. But for now I just want to make a couple of small upgrades with these Silver Micas and the few Orange Drops I purchased. Any help would be appreciated immensely. And who knows, maybe down the line I can return the favor somehow. Thanks. :idea:

 

[ibenhad]

There is plenty of info here you just need to search it. This information seems to be fairly guarded.. Plus there are lots of options and no one wants to help you possibly brick your modules. Start with the main grail tone page that shows the values to change and what you can easily upgrade.

 

[Kapo_Polenton]

That page is useless really.. unless you want to have a look at other stock modules for their values. there is very little by way of info on how the circuits work. It is hard to compare the preamp of an amp to the values on the PCB because they differ. That said, if you flip the board over and look at the traces, you can probably figure out which caps affect which pots and therefore which part of the tone you wish to alter. Then you look at other modules to see what values they use and you try one at a time to see the difference it makes.

One thing I've noticed, c13. Makes a huge diff in the upper mids. You'll need polarized caps there though.

 

[I is be sexy]

One thing I've noticed, c13. Makes a huge diff in the upper mids. You'll need polarized caps there though.

Really? Have you found anything specific? Like, what the difference between no cap/low value cap/ high value cap is?

 

[Kapo_Polenton]

I have.. it isn't a "thickness" it is more of a bump in some upper mids.

The brown module uses a 22uf . I dig it. Good cut. This is what I am using in my modded Brahma right now.

The Brahma has a .68 uf and I like that too

The stock SL+ I had , had no cap, I felt it too dark. I put in a .68uf cap and instantly it was better to me. I def. noticed it.

Granted i am finding that i like modules that cut. I am not a fan of dark modules.

 

[I is be sexy]

I have.. it isn't a "thickness" it is more of a bump in some upper mids.

The brown module uses a 22uf . I dig it. Good cut. This is what I am using in my modded Brahma right now.

The Brahma has a .68 uf and I like that too

The stock SL+ I had , had no cap, I felt it too dark. I put in a .68uf cap and instantly it was better to me. I def. noticed it.

Granted i am finding that i like modules that cut. I am not a fan of dark modules.

Cool, thanks. Of my three modules, only one has a cap in C13, and it's a 68uf. Maybe I'll try adding one to my Ultra

edit: typo fixed

 

[tuna141]

C13 - The stock SL+ I had , had no cap, I felt it too dark. I put in a .68uf cap and instantly it was better to me. I def. noticed it.

I'm glad I read this post. I modded SL+, but still find the module too dark. This mod sounds like it wil do the trick. Thanks for the tip.

 

[SacredGroove]

The stock SL+ I had , had no cap, I felt it too dark. I put in a .68uf cap and instantly it was better to me. I def. noticed it.

Is there a bypass cap at C7?

 

[Kapo_Polenton]

There was/is a .68 uf cap at C7 yes. ( I got it modded by Hilligan shortly after). Is C7 the position of the famous bypass cap over v2 in most Marshalls?

For sure there are more ways to address the clarity and the mid/high end of these modules, but c13 did make a diff for me as well as C7 was already in place. My Hilligan SL+ now has NO cap in C13 but he made up for it by brightening other areas of the module.

 

[SacredGroove]

C7 is typically used in Marshalls, and by using C13 you've filtered the signal from that stage, as well, so the tone will be more focused according to the cap value you've used. .68uF allows for more highs to pass at full gain of whatever gain that stage is producing. Smaller caps allow less lows and larger caps allow more lows. Make sense? :wink:

 

[Kapo_Polenton]

C7 is typically used in Marshalls, and by using C13 you've filtered the signal from that stage, as well, so the tone will be more focused according to the cap value you've used. .68uF allows for more highs to pass at full gain of whatever gain that stage is producing. Smaller caps allow less lows and larger caps allow more lows. Make sense? Wink

Yep! makes sense to me! This would account for C13 to 22uf giving my a spike in mids but also a bit more fullness.(if that makes any sense) It is prob overkill in that spot and doesn't make a diff past a certain point but i think it comes down to the available values that they make the caps in and I noticed the Brown used 22 uf so I figured I'd give it a go and i really dug it.

 

[SacredGroove]

Hi everyone. I've read a few posts about changing the Treble and Bright caps to make the module smoother. My local electronics shop actually has a bunch of Silver Micas. The guy said he hasn't sold any in almost a decade. So he was nice enough to give me a random selection ( including what i asked for ) for less than 15 bucks. Probably at least 3 or 4 dozen. Anyway, could someone please specify for me where exactly these caps are and the values. I'm definitely sending out both my SL+ and Blackface to be modded in a few months when I can afford it. But for now I just want to make a couple of small upgrades with these Silver Micas and the few Orange Drops I purchased. Any help would be appreciated immensely. And who knows, maybe down the line I can return the favor somehow. Thanks. :idea:

The treble cap is in the tone stack, so unless you want to change the voicing of the module, I would leave that alone. It's the cap that goes directly into the treble pot, and it controls high-mids response.

The bright cap is behind the gain pot (C1 or C2). You can try replacing it with a smaller value (under 1000pF) ranging from 100pF to 500pF, but also remove R8.

Keep in mind that the more gain you use, the effect of the bright cap lessens.

 

[I is be sexy]

The treble cap is in the tone stack, so unless you want to change the voicing of the module, I would leave that alone. It's the cap that goes directly into the treble pot, and it controls high-mids response.

The bright cap is behind the gain pot (C1 or C2). You can try replacing it with a smaller value (under 1000pF) ranging from 100pF to 500pF, but also remove R8.

Keep in mind that the more gain you use, the effect of the bright cap lessens.

Does it matter if the bright cap is in C1 or in C2? And would replacing the cap with one of a smaller value make the switch have less effect, or a different effect, or what?

 

[Deisel401]

Hi Scott. Thanks for the info. I do like the voicing but def. would like some more highs in general. My fav tone has always been a cranked 50 watt Plexi with those glassy, smooth, cutting highs. But with a bit more punch. So the highest I have ever had the gain on my SL+ is about 9 or 10 0'clock. I go more for the power tube breakup so this should work for me.( i hope ) I guess I'll be guessing on where the high frequency will be boosted with this change. I really do appreciate the help. Have a great day. AND it's a GUARANTEE that when I have the cash for mods to my B.F. and SL+, they will be going to you. Thanks.

 

[Deisel401]

To KAPO and Sacred Groove. I added the polarized .68uf to my SL+ in the C13 position and there is definitely more highs to my ears. Feels a bit "spankier" also. Wanted to say thanks again.

 

[SacredGroove]

To KAPO and Sacred Groove. I added the polarized .68uf to my SL+ in the C13 position and there is definitely more highs to my ears. Feels a bit "spankier" also. Wanted to say thanks again.

8)

 

[Kapo_Polenton]

Amazing the diff one cap can make in the right place! Now shoot for the stars and try the 22uf in that position and feel the power! Also a double thanks to sacredgroove for helping out in this thread rather than keeping all the goods to himself.

 

[Deisel401]

You were both generous with this and I do wish I can return the favor sometime. That's the only mod I'm doing because I'm saving my pennies to drop my Modules off with Sacred Groove Dude sometime in the next few months. I'm in Upstate N.Y.. So Hamilton N.J. is only 2 - 3 hrs away from where I'm sitting right now. Hopefully when that time comes I might be lucky enough to hang out with Scott for a few minutes and see his setup. Have a great day. EDIT: Sorry. Just realized I had Sacred Grooves' location confused with Jaded Faith. Another reason noone likes me . . . . . lol.

 

[SacredGroove]

EDIT: Sorry. Just realized I had Sacred Grooves' location confused with Jaded Faith. Another reason noone likes me . . . . . lol.

No worries mate! But, if you're in the Detroit area, stop on by. :wink:

 

[Deisel401]

Okay . . .so I finally found a 22uf for C13 and it really is a big difference from the .68uf i put in a cpl weeks ago. Really smooth.The .68 seems a hair brighter than the 22 tho'. And now I'm wondering what would happen if I put a 22 in C7 to match C13. . . .or maybe taking C7 out ?Anyone think this would be a bad idea ? I mean possible damage ? And could anyone tell me what C6 is for ?