Bought a Bogner XTC today...

[okstrat]

...and I bet you're wondering what this post is doing in 'modules'. Well... I'm going to see how close I can clone the two different bogner channels using the XTC modules as a starting point.

Thought you guys might find this interesting. I dig my XTC mods, but I think if I had the real deal here to A/B against, I could get REAL close. Of course, I'm limited by the Randall's power section - and I don't mean that as a slam, just that I can't mod it, so all my 'mojo' has to come out of the preamp.

Pete

 

[RD/Steve]

pete...there is a mod (top secret) for the power section that the KH has built in.

i could tell you...but then i'd have to... :twisted:

congrats on the purchase.

 

[okstrat]

Thanks man, very cool on the KH mod. I'll probably mod some of my Randall RM amps eventually... I'd be pretty happy if I could cop more of the XTC vibe though.

Pete

 

[JKD]

Dude.,...you rock! If there's an amp I'd like it's the XTC..well, actually the XTC tone at a lower volume.....never thought the stock module really did that tone justice but I bet by subtle tweaks and tube changes *you* can get it much closer

That said...I enjoyed my last go around with the stock XTC much more than prior 3 engagements....in my Egnater head that is...tweaked the tubes for what I wanted and I think my playing is improving too..which helps

 

[Soulinsane]

Hey :shock: Somebody want to explain why everyone else doesn't get to know the details about the "top secret" KH power section? Pete isn't the only person on this forum that likes to try modifications. In fact, I do more inside my RM100 than with my modules. I'm a little upset

Congrats and good luck with the Bogner though, Pete. Its an awesome amp. You might end up liking it more than the MTS.... naw :wink:

 

[okstrat]

Hey :shock: Somebody want to explain why everyone else doesn't get to know the details about the "top secret" KH power section? Pete isn't the only person on this forum that likes to try modifications. In fact, I do more inside my RM100 than with my modules. I'm a little upset

Congrats and good luck with the Bogner though, Pete. Its an awesome amp. You might end up liking it more than the MTS.... naw :wink:

Thanks. Nobody has let me in on any mods though for the power section. I know several anyways that I may try eventually.

Oh, and I've played friends' XTCs before. Killer amp, but if I can get the XTC modules to hit pretty close, I'd MUCH rather take a Randall to a gig than a much more expensive amp. Plus I got a good enough deal that I know I can get my money back if I learn what I can from it and decide to flip it.

Pete

 

[Soulinsane]

Hey :shock: Somebody want to explain why everyone else doesn't get to know the details about the "top secret" KH power section? Pete isn't the only person on this forum that likes to try modifications. In fact, I do more inside my RM100 than with my modules. I'm a little upset

Congrats and good luck with the Bogner though, Pete. Its an awesome amp. You might end up liking it more than the MTS.... naw :wink:

Thanks. Nobody has let me in on any mods though for the power section. I know several anyways that I may try eventually.

Oh, and I've played friends' XTCs before. Killer amp, but if I can get the XTC modules to hit pretty close, I'd MUCH rather take a Randall to a gig than a much more expensive amp. Plus I got a good enough deal that I know I can get my money back if I learn what I can from it and decide to flip it.

Pete

I was about to cry lol. If the RD guys ever share specs again in the future I think its only fair they share with all or none. Otherwise it defeats what a forum is designed to be.

I got a few older ideals I'm going to try with the PI, feedback, input, grounding, heaters, and power supply once I get my RM100 back in operation. Everything looks good on paper and stats but I've been without transformers for months. I've had no way to test anything. I want to keep the amp stock until I burn the new trannys in. There is so much to do even after that but its one step at a time for comparison. There are times I wonder if my RM100 will ever be whole again lol.

... A moment in the life of a tone junkie.

 

[Juggernaut]

I dont see what the big secret is, these guys around here and ALOT of other places can easily reverse engineer the modules and pretty much anything in the amp itself. Whats the big deal?

Hell the guys at Randall are getting Petes stuff as well as others who have modded them, I'm sure they're doing the exact same thing to improve their own designs.....

Come on Randall dont be like Mesa and give out B.S. schematics, it's not like you guys dont have the rights to the design anyways.

 

[Soulinsane]

I dont see what the big secret is, these guys around here and ALOT of other places can easily reverse engineer the modules and pretty much anything in the amp itself. Whats the big deal?

Hell the guys at Randall are getting Petes stuff as well as others who have modded them, I'm sure they're doing the exact same thing to improve their own designs.....

Come on Randall dont be like Mesa and give out B.S. schematics, it's not like you guys dont have the rights to the design anyways.

He has a point. Like all legendary amps its only a matter of time until people begin to rip open every part to see how it works, replace it, make it better, expand the design and eventually build DIY clones. I think the MTS is different because it doesn't fall into the "one trick pony" category. I learn new things about this amp everyday. Many have started the process of reverse engineering and expansion. I started that process about a year ago. The question is what will people do in the age of Google and free knowledge. I can say the old way of hording knowledge like a lich wizard is over. The only thing that remains valuable in this age of free knowledge is craftsmanship, passion, and good tone.

 

[RD/Steve]

gentlemen...

if we released the mod it wouldn't be "top secret." and...it wouldn't be fair to kirk.

if we let everyone have the schematics...imagine the damage that would be done by all those the "think" they can mod. customer sevice nightmare. :shock:

we reserve the right to hold on to our schematics. please understand it's just the nature of the business.

there's no need to get upset...and we haven't released any to anyone here on these forum, for the record. i'm sure someone will figure it out somehow someway.

 

[okstrat]

gentlemen...

if we released the mod it wouldn't be "top secret." and...it wouldn't be fair to kirk.

if we let everyone have the schematics...imagine the damage that would be done by all those the "think" they can mod. customer sevice nightmare. :shock:

we reserve the right to hold on to our schematics. please understand it's just the nature of the business.

there's no need to get upset...and we haven't released any to anyone here on these forum, for the record. i'm sure someone will figure it out somehow someway.

I'm just randomly riffing here, but if I was going to do a power supply mod... it would probably be:

1) stiffening or loosening up the amp by more or less filtering

2) changing the B+ voltages (I'm actually thinking of putting a 'brown' switch in mine eventually)

Personally, I'm not worried about it, and I'm actually GLAD they are doing this - otherwise it would just be a different headshell. I think there should be a difference between the signature amps and the regular ones. Anything that makes the MTS line stronger is good for all of us. I want these amps to be made forever and a day.

Plus Steve is dead on - changing C3 and a few other parts on a module is pretty easy... but if you look on the board, even that can be a task for some. I don't mean this to slam anyone, but the last thing I'd want is for people to go digging around a 500v or so part of the amp and zap themselves... or screw something up and burn their amp or transformer.

Oh, and I personally don't think Randall is necesarily gathering different mods to 'steal' them... they might be curious, nothing wrong with that. Randall modules sell just fine 'stock' without needing to be modded by me or others. Jeff at Egnater asked me what I did to some modules and I told him... I can't imagine I'm coming up with anything designers at Randall or Egnater didn't before. We're not reinventing the wheel here, just painting flames on it and trying to get it to roll a little further.

Pete

 

[RD/Steve]

amen my brother...

 

[Juggernaut]

gentlemen...

if we released the mod it wouldn't be "top secret." and...it wouldn't be fair to kirk.

if we let everyone have the schematics...imagine the damage that would be done by all those the "think" they can mod. customer sevice nightmare. :shock:

we reserve the right to hold on to our schematics. please understand it's just the nature of the business.

there's no need to get upset...and we haven't released any to anyone here on these forum, for the record. i'm sure someone will figure it out somehow someway.

I'm not by any stretch of the word upset and I understand the Kirk issue, although it probably wont take too much time before someone figures it out

As far as Schematics, I dont see the point, if someone is determined enough they are gonna tear into their modules anyways, and shouldn't or isn't it Randall policy if it's been modded/screwed with it VOIDS the warranty? NOT YOUR PROBLEM anymore

Just thinking out loud guys, trying to understand. I get the whole "it's ours" deal, kinda the way Cameron covers his mods, or when Mako was doing point to point they would paint each piece of the circuit, but this is something that can be figured out somewhat easy, and wouldn't it be helpful to give people proper schematics if they need them?

I emailed Randall for the Schematics for my RM100 awhile back and they sent them to me, I use a local tech whom I trust completely, but if I were to give him these Schematics to work off of, they would be useless to him, because they are wrong...... THAT I have a problem with, if your gonna give them out, PLEASE make sure they are correct, or just say "we dont give out schematics"

Easy

 

[Juggernaut]

Oh, and I personally don't think Randall is necesarily gathering different mods to 'steal' them... they might be curious, nothing wrong with that. Randall modules sell just fine 'stock' without needing to be modded by me or others. Jeff at Egnater asked me what I did to some modules and I told him... I can't imagine I'm coming up with anything designers at Randall or Egnater didn't before. We're not reinventing the wheel here, just painting flames on it and trying to get it to roll a little further.

Pete

I'm not saying that they are STEALING anything, but like anything else, it's GOOD BUSINESS to research what others are successfully doing with your product and see where you can improve....thats all.




FWIW, guys I'm not trying to argue, just debating the schematics deal more than anything, because, I am competent enough to mod my own modules, but would like to have a set of original schems for them as well that are correct, without having to go through all the hassle of reversing it myself. Would just be helpful thats all. And dont get me wrong I'm a HUGE Randall fanatic have been since the 80's.

 

[RD/Steve]

here's some food for thought...

we give our AUTHORIZED service centers schematics to repair our amplifiers. this is usually done under warranty or under our auntorization. we'd prefer people to get the amp repaired by those we authorize. that's all.

just trying to help you better understand our position.

 

[Juggernaut]

fair enough, one last question though, you haven't addressed yet.

Why is CS sending out PDF Schematics that are wrong?

 

[RD/Steve]

pm'd...

 

[Soulinsane]

So hows that Bogner treating you Pete I got a few things you might be able to use. Let me know if you need more.

 

[k3m16]

What pre-amp is this ?

 

[k3m16]

Should have said " This looks like a single space rack Bogner XTC " Never heard or seen one of these.