Egnater update

[Vince]

So a $10 added cost that saves an American job is going to determine that a module will not sell? I highly doubt it.

These are not your "beginner" type products either. Just trying to stay on topic.....

Also... I am not trying to regulate the world.... just trying to maybe create a job for my neighbor... or yours.... or maybe one of your friends that you care about. Is that something that should be looked down on?

All the additional information that was posted is only supporting facts to show what the problem with going the other way is.

 

[m0jo]

So a $10 added cost that saves an American job is going to determine that a module will not sell? I highly doubt it.

These are not your "beginner" type products either. Just trying to stay on topic.....

Also... I am not trying to regulate the world.... just trying to maybe create a job for my neighbor... or yours.... or maybe one of your friends that you care about. Is that something that should be looked down on?

All the additional information that was posted is only supporting facts to show what the problem with going the other way is.

You keep throwing the $10 around.

Maybe Bruce can shed some light on the price difference?

He did mention in the interview posted earlier the Tourmaster would be a $5000+ amp.
That's more than 2,5 times the price.
Of course that's a bit exaggerated, but there will probably be more than a neglegible difference.

Apart from anything else, I can barely afford the Randall stuff .. nevermind the Egnater modules.
If that same quality could be gotten for a lower price than the Randall stuff, I'd be filling up on Egnater.

Also your condescending remark about "not understanding if you have never run your own business" ..
It doesn't help getting your point across by saying the other party won't understand.
This is a very easy non-argument, if you can't explain it it doesn't hold any value in this debate.

 

[Vince]

How many business owners frequent forums all day? Not very damn many... I qualified my credentials so unless someone else does then I assume they are not business minded. So... how is that condenscending?

If you have an education in economics or a MBA... let's hear it!

Minimum wage in Illinois is $8 something and hour. So figure that you can build 2 modules an hour... $16 an hour is a decent wage ... $10 extra added to a module would mean that someone is earning a wage and the module is paid for minus materials. See what I mean? I am not being condenscending since no one seems to be able to grasp the concept.

 

[m0jo]

You see, you just explained it and got your point across.
If that is all there is to it, then Made in US should be the right choice.
But Bruce is the only one who can see all the costs, problems and efforts needed.

On a side note: I wonder if some minimum-wage slave (to use offensive term ) would solder with the same precision and passion as Bruce.
This would mean there should be good QC. Bruce soldering himself would basically be his own QC.
And who checks the QC?

Then these people need a place to work.
There needs to be a distributing network from there.

I do not have a degree in economics or whatever.
I am however not stupid and can grasp this kind of economics.
I'm not saying you don't know what you're talking about, just saying that if you don't give the idea's your views are based on, people will not turn to your point of view.

And I don't like saying this:
Please do remember English is not my first language, I'm pretty proficient in it but there are some gaps.
This doesn't help in these types of arguments.

 

[Vince]

You do fine with English.... much much better than I do at any language including English! :lol:

That was just a completely rough explaination... wages would probably be closer to $12 - $13 an hour. Pretty normal for starting positions. I cannot see these modules being produced at hundreds a day... there just in not THAT big of call for them so think pretty small production. I myself am quite proficient at soldering and am currently recapping a few of my own amplifiers. We are not talking about needing a state of the art facility and needing a few QC inspectors. But they would definately be QC'd before shipment.

As with anything... the more proficient someone becomes at their job... the more profit for the company.

 

[Julia]

What I think is happening is that finally people are starting to take notice of the Egnater Mod line. It's been pretty much a boutique made per order item that not too many people knew about. I mean even the Randall MTS line hardly anyone has heard of them in comparison to the major brand comparably priced stuff.

Why are they taking notice? The Rebel and the Renegade.

So now he's got to be ready for an influx of orders. And then he wants time to work on his next great thing.

That's why he's looking for a company to build these. The company probably won't be building these full time either. Just another line they'll have. "We got an order for 50 Egnater preamp modules (and probably different ones) today that have to be out by the end of the week. Get your crew on them."

It's hard enough finding Randall modules in stock new at the major online dealers.

 

[JKD]

Vince, politics aside I'm sure you mean well with the argument but there's a whole lot more to consider than the cost of a minimum wage employee...and even outside of cost there are huge pros/cons on both sides of the equation.

Credentials? >15 years experience in manufacturing and business development for a global company. I work on small (sub $100k), medium (up to $1m) and large (multi-million) repair solutions on a daily basis.....

Bruce may well decide that a US based 'mom and pop' shop is appropriate for his business but that's ultimately his call......it was nice of him to be transparent/thoughtful/honest enough to post the update. It's all gravy from here..if we're party to the end decision and ultimately don't like it.......we still get to vote with our wallets/minds....as everything else.

 

[Vince]

I cannot think of one con that would outweigh all the pros of having them assembled in the USA.

Here are some of the pros...

The job would create income that would be pumped back into the US economy.

Quality would be to US standards

Better Communication between designer and manufacturer

Higher resale value for the customer

Faster distribution throughout the US which is the main customer

Control over components that would guarantee quality

I would love to hear the cons that could not be rectified by manufacturing in the USA.

 

[Zander]

Bruce can just stack it on top of the pile if he wants... nothing I can do about it except purge my equipment and buy from a manufacturer with a conscience.

Or instead of bitching about how The Chinaman has his boot on your throat, you could make Bruce a COMPELLING offer as to how you're going to help him expand operations (because his product is in demand?) all while keeping all production firmly here in the US of A. This is your GOLDEN opportunity Vince. Keep it all in America. Hire some student solder jockeys from the local JC and make it happen.

 

[Vince]

You post that like I have influence over the way he is looking for manufacturers. I am more than willing to beat any quote he may get... as long as it is a legitimate quote. I will also take care of distribution which is probably not something he was looking for but makes for a efficient operation.

 

[Zander]

I quote it because while you have no control over how Bruce looks for manufacturers, you certainly have control as to whether or not you decide to make an inquiry to Bruce regarding the process and soliciting any possible RFP.

 

[Vince]

I am afraid I may have burnt that bridge by being so strong in my opinions. It wasn't my intention to take over the manufacturing for Bruce but rather debate the merit of having an American manufacturer produce them vs overseas.

However... I love his products and would be honored to take over the production for him.

 

[bruce egnater]

Thanks everyone for the spirited and enlightening discussion. I now have a bit more insight into how people feel about certain issues.
Vince, exactly what is your business and do you actually have the resources for "volume production"?

 

[Vince]

Bruce... I am able to produce these at any volume you will require. I am a Six Sigma Green Belt and am versed in Lean Manufacturing disciplines and have consulted for Fortune 500 companies on ISO 9002 certifications.

I am ready, willing and able to fulfill your manufacturing requirements. I can also coordinate distribution for you.

I manufacture a Friction Modifier for contact points on guitars. It is actually much more than that as it is a solid lubricant suspended in a liquid carrier that dries immediately and is 4 dynes slicker than teflon. It leaves no residue unlike other "Nut Sauces" Anyone who has used it swears by it over any other nut lube or trem lube. It is also the best PCB coating that money can buy that eliminates moisture on electrical connections that causes failures.

BTW... I am located in Southern Illinois which is ideal for distribution.


All I need is a contract and I can get funds for startup costs.


I will email you tomorrow Bruce.

 

[Zander]

I really hope you can make this happen, Vince.

I mean that with all goodwill and sincerity.


-Zander