MTS versus Dual Recto

[enuenu]

After much pondering I am now close to getting a head. I have narrowed it down to two, an RM100 or a Mesa Dual Recto. I have longed for a Dual Recto for many years but it was recently suggested that I look into the Randall MTS heads. I did and am now having second thoughts about the Recto.
This being an MTS forum, I ask you to sell me the MTS over the Recto. Probably innapropriate here, but if you feel the Recto has the goods let me know why. The MTS is looking good now for flexibility and the fact that I can import one into Australia with no power voltage hassles. However I could get a Voodoo Amps Modded Recto (240V) from NY USA that solves this problem for a bit over USD$2100. The Randall will still be cheaper but a couple hundred bucks is not a factor.
I know I must not make a decision without playing the gear. Still waiting for my local shop to get a Randall MTS head to try out. The only thing I worry about is getting an MTS, not liking it and saying to myself "You fool, you always wanted a Recto, why did you sway at the last minute!!"
Think tones like Morgoth or Helmet (different I know). I want low power chords that are thick, menacing yet defined. No artificial "hair metal" sounds. I want organic tones. Can the MTS replication be as good as the original?.....or better??
Stock Gibson '76 Explorer (2007)

 

[audioholic]

To me, The Randall / Egnater Moduler line up is a no brainer. I mean why buy one amp with the possibility to get 2-3 usuable sounds at most, when you can continually refresh and update your preamp section to get various tones, as your tone pallette most likely will change.

The randall recto may not be as good as a mesa recto, but you could always try the egnater erect, or something else, plus with the ability to add fender, vox, marshall tones all through the same head to me is the way to go.

I have bought and sold several amps, not keeping one much more then a year, I like a sound, and then desire something different as my playing style and tone quest evolves, changes. Moduler is truly a great idea.


I have the rack version, so I am not too familiar with the head, but I am very happy thus far

 

[jimosity]

I've had both the RM100 and a Dual Recto at the same time.
I've also had a couple Trem-o-verbs, a couple Recording Rectos, a racktifier, and a Road King.
I sold them all and still own my RM100 and all the Randall modules and two Egnater M4's if that tells you anything.

The Grail module is the closest you're going to come to an Egnater ERECT (I have both) and it's also the closest to the Dual Rectifier tone you're going to find as well. Despite the name, The Recto module doesn't sound as much like a Recto as the Grail does.

I do still own a Mesa 20/20, 2:100 and a 2x12 cab that are all awesome, but for heads / preamps - you just can't beat the Randall/Egnater stuff.
If you get the right modules, you can get almost the same tone, only better - with more flexibility and channels.

 

[enuenu]

Thanks, forgive my ignorance but what is the difference between Egnator and Randall?

 

[jimosity]

Egnater designed the modular stuff.
Randall has the more reasonably priced MTS series
Egnater has the higher end equivalents basically...

The Randall modules are single channel, whereas Egnater offers dual channel versions, giving modules two different gain and volume controls.

Randall modules typically sell somewhere in the $100-200 range used, depending on the module.
Egnater modules are pretty consistently selling for around $350 used.

It's been said that Randall modules are a bit more aggressive tonally...but several Egnater modules are high gain and can do metal quite well.

The quality of some components are possibly better in the Egnater gear; however both probably use the same distributors for most parts.

The Randall gear is incredible stuff - unfortunately it seems that the development of new modules with new tones that haven't already been addressed seems to have come to a halt.
Signature modules are great and all - but I sure wish some new modules would come out that are NOT signature series.
We've all stated several examples of tones that could be released that aren't your typical "Mesa / Marshall / Fender" that would surely be welcomed members of the MTS family.

Under the "Modules" section, the announcement posts are "New Modules for 2007" - I sure wish there would be some news of NEW developments in the MTS series.

 

[jlbaxe]

egnater is now dual channel, so each mod has two channels.if you get an Egnater M4 you have 4 mods giving you an 8 channel amp.I have the dual Erect and own a mesa Mk III,i have found my tone on the erect and have unplugged my mesa. So i am able to get a really clean mesa sound and channel B my distortion. if you use the randall rt2/50 amp you can midi switch channel A and B with 6L6's or EL34's. get a SL or Sl2 for an awesome marshall tone and VX for the vox. you can also play at lower volumes,My rt2/50 at 9 o'clock and Egnater M4 master set at 3 o'clock hits the sweet spot that my mesa needs to be at 7.

 

[Smokey]

The MTS is looking good now for flexibility

Flexible is an understatement. You already know about the tones from the different modules, but what about tubes?? You can check the bias yourself and adjust it at a gig to make sure your tubes are cooking right. Mix and match tubes, wanna run 2 x 6L6's and 2 x KT88 without consulting a amp tech. no problem.

I know I must not make a decision without playing the gear. Still waiting for my local shop to get a Randall MTS head to try out.

Jimosity's sound clips are great.

The only thing I worry about is getting an MTS, not liking it and saying to myself "You fool, you always wanted a Recto, why did you sway at the last minute!!"

I have owned a Marshall Silver Jubilee, Fender Hot Rod Deluxe, Peavey Classic 50 and had a Rectoverb which I sold to get the RM100. Since then I have been able to try out a Bogner XTC, Uberschall and Shiva, Cornford Hellcat and MI Audio Revelation. I did also test out Bad Cat before I got the RM100. Everytime after playing the other amps, I come home and turn on my rig and have yet to find an amp that makes me want to sell it (the MI Audio Revelation came close, but if I got that, I'd probably just keep them both). It is the best tone I have had ever. Slays my old Rectoverb. I was in the same position as you with the decision. My deciding factor was, that it is better to have the option to send modules for modding (like Pete - Okstrat) or spend a few hundred on a complete new module rather than selling the entire amp. The cost of a module (let's say approx $200US through this forum) for a completly different amp tone and feel. Lately, I've been only using my amp for home recording. Much easier than having many different amps for different tones. I also wished I owned this years ago. I think Jim's list of Mesa amps that he has bought and sold tell you the story.

I want low power chords that are thick, menacing yet defined. I want organic tones. Can the MTS replication be as good as the original?.....or better??

My Egnater Erect is crushing Recto tone and better than the Mesa I owned. I might have to take it in to show my mates in Billy Hydes and watch their jaws drop. It is not buzzy or fizzy at all. Every Recto clone in emulation (Line 6, V-amp, etc) is based on the early circuits of the original Dual Rec's (The first 500 off the production line). Then the circuitboards changed. The Grail Egnater Erect or a Pete modded Recto do "that tone" that you are looking for, but then give you flexibility to have a better clean than a Recto and let you throw a Marshall, Vox or Bogner into the mix as well. I have not regretted buying this amp at all. Only downside I will say, the RM100 is not light (neither was my Rectoverb), but it does have 2 handles on each end which make it easier to carry. Everyone who has changed to the MTS or Egnater raves about it. even those that go away end up coming back. I wish I owned this amp years ago when I was playing covers. Where abouts in Aus are you? One of my mates at Cranbourne Music put me onto this amp and I haven't looked back. I've been grinning from ear to ear whenever I turn it on since I got it. Finally, it sounds great at all volume levels, low or cranked!!
Cheers

 

[kbause]

I recently was just looking into the same choices.

And as you can see, I'm here posting on the MTS forum rather than on the Mesa forums.

What honestly sold me was flexibility.
The external bias points and easy adjustment, the large amount of different modules, the ease and availability of mods (be it DIY or having one modded).

Personally I was also considering a Recto, Mark IV, or Tremoverb and I ultimately decided on the Randall.

The clean on the Blackface make Dual Recs cry.
The Dual Recs shine is their dirty channels.
However there are multiple recto style modules, and lots of mods for said modules, I think if you can't find the sound you're looking for in those options you need some lessons in tweaking.

 

[metalmm785]

Let me chime in with my 2 cents.

I currently have a dual roadster, a single for sale and i have owned an rm100 and an m4 preamp with a bunch of the modules.
If you want flexibility, you simply cannot beat the randall/egnater gear. It sounds fantatic and the ability to choose modules to fit your playing style is second to none. If you like the recto tone due to the modern mode, the grail and the e-rect come at least 85% there with a good boost up front, all while having less fizz. Make sure you do have a good set of 6l6s though because they contribute greatly to that tone.

No module really does the vintage mode, which i think it's a big bummer because that's my favorite sound in the amp. The downside is that i'm an avid marshall fanatic so there is no way in hell to get that tone outta the mesa. The clean on the recto is good, but after playing the blackface, twin/deluxe and vx modules, it feels like comparing a blues junior to an old twin. I greatly recommend you try both amps just to keep your mind at ease, however, don't doubt the rm series as they are fantastic amps.

 

[maximus1]

i 've heard many dual recs that i thought sucked but i geuss its all how you eq them, but my modded recto module is all i need for mesa tones, i like it better than than many of the real ones i've heard. like every one else has been saying its a no brainer, as much as i get gas :roll: all i need to do is spend 200 buck or trade a module and bam behold its a brand new amp or even run a different type tube in the power section. best amp around hands down.

 

[JKD]

Every now and again I miss my Dual Recto and go on a Recto hunt....to cure this I usually just plug in the Grail module .. and then switch over to the KH-3 or the Ultra or Mr Scary...

The Recto is great and I had quite a few usable tones out of mine after a little tweaking but hard to match the flexibility of the Randall/Egnater.

The Randall sounds better at lower volumes too but I never really had the chance to crank either so could be the Recto holds up better at gig level

I kinda wish I'd had the chance to check out a Voodoo modded DR..I stupidly passed up a deal at $1200 on one of these....I'm told they sound better at lower volumes...unfortunately the clips I heard sounded like it messed with the basic tone of the DR a little too much.

If you ever find serial #008283 2ch Dual Recto kicking about and it's not been f'd over by someone...it sounds godly!

 

[enuenu]

Thanks a lot. Negative comments about the RM100 are few and far between. Factor in no need for power tranny upgrade (when importing head from USA), flexibility, good tones at low volumes, lower cost and most importantly the tone I want can be achieved means the Randall is taking a lead. The proven bullet-proof nature of Mesas is a factor. I also thought about the Voodoo mod maybe altering the DNA of a Recto as a possible negative. Either way I will end up with a filthy beast. Back to the cave for more pondering. I will check some clips as well.

I take it the Randall RM100 is the vehicle to carry either Randall MTS or Egnator modules (Egnator make modules only, built for use in RM100s)??
EDIT - hang on Egnator make an RM100 equivalent also it seems. Is this like Randall/Egnator business setup like the Epiphone/Gibson setup?

 

[crankyrayhanky]

The biasing feature cannot be empasized enough; the difference when moving a tube amp is real clear with the digital meters and it's great to put it back to nominal levels

I personally think the Treadplate kicks the Rectifier even without modifications- and the clean stinks on a Mesa compared to the choices on mts

Awesome amp, never going back

 

[audioholic]

Thanks a lot. Negative comments about the RM100 are few and far between. Factor in no need for power tranny upgrade (when importing head from USA), flexibility, good tones at low volumes, lower cost and most importantly the tone I want can be achieved means the Randall is taking a lead. The proven bullet-proof nature of Mesas is a factor. I also thought about the Voodoo mod maybe altering the DNA of a Recto as a possible negative. Either way I will end up with a filthy beast. Back to the cave for more pondering. I will check some clips as well.

I take it the Randall RM100 is the vehicle to carry either Randall MTS or Egnator modules (Egnator make modules only, built for use in RM100s)??
EDIT - hang on Egnator make an RM100 equivalent also it seems. Is this like Randall/Egnator business setup like the Epiphone/Gibson setup?

Egnater makes thier own head and chassis. Though it takes much longer to make as they make them per order, many many months in back order. You can order modules though with little wait. I would not say egnater/randall is like gibson/epiphone. I have played with egnater stuff, and own the RM4 with 3 randall modules and 1 egnater single. I think they are both very high quality. Egnater's modules are now dual moduels, though you can order a single channel version of some of thier most popular modules to work in the randall line. I think randalls modules are very high quality, the egnater ones are just voiced a little different. Better? hard to say. Some may prefer different modules over others from both lines, its just great to know you can pick from both great companies to put together a kick butt rig!!! so many options.

A friend of mine has an RM4 rig with his modules modded by dave friendman, and it was some of the best tones I have ever heard. Great thing about this whole lineup is that its easily modded if you preffer soemthing different or slightly better

 

[JKD]

The Egnater MOD100 is discontinued..if you want a 100W dual channel head then only way is second hand Egnater or buy a Randall RM and have Egnater mod it.

Current Egnater modular products are the 2-slot, dual channel MOD50, the 4-slot, dual channel M4 pre-amp and soon to be the E2 .. a 2 slot dual channel pre-amp with switching built in (for ease of integration into a rig)

 

[enuenu]

So the RM100 is single channel only? I thought you used a footswitch to jump between the three modules in place. Is this not true? I though they were effectively 3 channel, but I am a newb as far as amp tech stuff goes.

 

[audioholic]

So the RM100 is single channel only? I thought you used a footswitch to jump between the three modules in place. Is this not true? I though they were effectively 3 channel, but I am a newb as far as amp tech stuff goes.

no, it has 3 channells, so 3 slots for "single" channel modules. Egnater amps like the mod 50 and M4 take "dual" channel modules, so each module in itself has 2 channells. So the egnater mod 50 has 2 slots, so 2 modules, giving a total of 4 channels (2 switchable channels per mod). The 2 channels usually being different amounts of gain. they share the same eq.

So the RM100 will be 3 channels, just if you use egnater dual channel modules, it will still be just 3 channels (not 6) as you can only access the first channel of the egnater dualies.

To me, I like keeping things simple, and like having 4 single channel modules in my rm4. I think 8 switchable channels would be a tad too much for me to keep track off, specially how I usually only stick to 1-2 sounds for the majority.

Remember, you can have egnater design a single channel mod of thier most popular options, though they are not cheap. this will represent the B channel of the module, the one you could not access before.

make sence?

 

[enuenu]

Being able to switch between 3 channels is plenty. Does the RM100 come with a footswitch to do this?

 

[kbause]

Being able to switch between 3 channels is plenty. Does the RM100 come with a footswitch to do this?

Yes it does.
You can use an midi footswitchto my understanding.

So it'd nicely integrate with a Midi controller and other midi controlled devices.

 

[tonymustang302]

I said f-it and bought a dual rec Head..... JKD u want first dib's if i dont like it?