Music Theory Section Back at it

[Julia]

I thought it was called the Yngwie Scale, not the Harmonic Minor. :lol:

and yeah, I can write out stuff on a music sheet. I had a teacher once who went through and "analyzed" a composition of mine. Said it was in Dorian and came up with all this analysis.

No it's not. I used something not used very much past Bach -- the MELODIC minor scale. The tonic used the major scale in the tonic root. Very Scarlatti in musical structure. I also used the relative major scale. I think this is what threw him for a loop. I got a laugh out that in the car.

and for scales this book called the "No Bullshit Scale Book" came with this magazine I got a long while back. You know all those scales and stuff and modal stuff? and positions of them? Yeah it was in there. Just ones you're gonna use.

 

[Dirtdog]

I thought it was called the Yngwie Scale, not the Harmonic Minor. :lol:

and yeah, I can write out stuff on a music sheet. I had a teacher once who went through and "analyzed" a composition of mine. Said it was in Dorian and came up with all this analysis.

No it's not. I used something not used very much past Bach -- the MELODIC minor scale. The tonic used the major scale in the tonic root. Very Scarlatti in musical structure. I also used the relative major scale. I think this is what threw him for a loop. I got a laugh out that in the car.

and for scales this book called the "No Bullshit Scale Book" came with this magazine I got a long while back. You know all those scales and stuff and modal stuff? and positions of them? Yeah it was in there. Just ones you're gonna use.

Its cool you used melodic minor. its a very cool scale. My theory and playing background is in Jazz so we used this scale often due to its altered properties which is something we'll be discussing in posts to come.

 

[crankyrayhanky]

I just found this thread...what happened to DirtDog? I'm an eager student awaiting your return...

 

[walshinator666]

Has anyone seen doug chappers on u-tube?He explains major scale and it's modes really well so most people can understand them.I've done what he suggests and memorized 3 modes plus the panatonic and harmonic minor.That's pretty much all I can handle,with that I can figure most things out and still improvise nicely.Unless you plan on being the next guitar god that's all you really need(my opinion)

 

[Goldfish]

Very true that many players won't need to know the names of all seven modes. There's no need to over-theorize if you're not naturally drawn to that. More important to learn how the diatonic system sounds and where the shapes all interconnect. That will give you a solid foundation for improvising freely all over the neck.

 

[stratomaster]

I like the Blues Scale with Maj 6 the Dorian Note and Maj 3rd from time to time to add some tension.

1 Min3rd 4th flat5 5th Maj 6th Min 7th i've notice EVH used this alot.
this sounds great in the higher register and falls real nice so its easy to play.

 

[Wycked Lester]

great info, thanks

 

[Dirtdog]

Dirtdog here,
I've been away for awhile (been layed off, Moved out West, and getting settled in) and just thought I would revisit this thread. If there is still interest in this thread I will be posting some new stuff in the coming weeks.

Cheers

 

[Dirtdog]

Dirtdog is back again
I didn't want to leave you guys out to dry. I sold my randall stuff but am getting ready to get a egnater renegade. Anyways I have posted a new theory discussion over at lefty guitar trader (I have found a great site for lefties)
I have even posted videos of each of the lessons so you can get a feel of what I am talking about in the posts over there some of the stuff I have already discussed here but also posted videos
Cheers and look forward to seeing you
here is the link
for your use

http://www.leftyguitartrader.com/forum/showthread.php?2512-Music-Theory-Discussion

 

[wakeguitar]

cool thread, I'm gonna try and learn some more of this stuff!
\\
I mainly learned music from tab, which I love btw. It's numbers (easy math), and it's literal and finite... which I like.. anyways just my thoughts...

have you ever used the vst plugin Improvisator? It lay's out all of the musical modes and many more variations I'm not very familiar with, I use it to reference examples or to 'see' the result over-layed on a keyboard... of course you wouldn't need it if you could memorize all of that theory.

 

[wakeguitar]

Not that it matters nor does anyone care, but...

The amount of theory I know wouldn't fill a thimble.
I rejected much of the musical "system" and made my own.

#1. Reading music was nearly impossible for me, being partly dyslexic

#2. I don't like the sound of ALL the scales, so why learn them?

#3. The standard number of notes is 7, right? WRONG! There are 12 notes! The system of A,B,C,D,E,F,G is so whacked it frustrated me within 6 months of playing guitar...so I tossed out learning much of the standard musical notations.

Don't get me wrong, I know my basic notes/chords and I learned enough to communicate with most average musicians.
My problem is simply this:
C sharp or D minor? What's that you say? It depends on the scale?
Horsehockey!
A note should have the same designation no matter what the scale is.
If nobody else agrees, then I must be the biggest outcast in music history.

The sky is blue (except in winter, then it's grey).
Trees are green (except in winter when they turn brown)
So I guess life if just that way.
It doesn't mean that everyone will agree.

This is exactly why we have tablature.

 

[Dirtdog]

cool thread, I'm gonna try and learn some more of this stuff!
\\
I mainly learned music from tab, which I love btw. It's numbers (easy math), and it's literal and finite... which I like.. anyways just my thoughts...

have you ever used the vst plugin Improvisator? It lay's out all of the musical modes and many more variations I'm not very familiar with, I use it to reference examples or to 'see' the result over-layed on a keyboard... of course you wouldn't need it if you could memorize all of that theory.

Well overlaying it over a keyboard would not be of much use for guitar. The thing about guitar that makes it unique is that the same note can be played in different positions on the guitar. This makes it easier to transpose but also makes it a bear to get under control. What I like about Guys scales and modes is that the fretboard patterns are used. so you can visualize the fretboard easier. The patterns for Ionian, Mixolydian, and Lydian only differ by a half step of one note either way. The same goes for Aeolian, Dorian and Phrygian with Locrian being the oddman out , but can be easier related to Phrygian with a b5. Tab was a great help for many guitar players. What I would emphasize is that note reading is not a requirement unless you plan to be a studio musician somewhere. but understanding rhythm figures is very very very important. So i would spend my time playing rhythms rather than site reading. This does not mean I should forgo learning the different notes and keys because this has value in it as well. Because you should at least have some working knowledge of cycle 5 and 4 depending on which way your going around the what I would call a key clock. with C major being at the top. and going clockwise would have the start of the sharp keys and going counterclockwise from C would be the start of the flat keys. If you get guys grids or have any good theory book. this clock will be in there. Anyway enough of my rambling. I am glad you have taken a step towards getting more knowledge of the instrument, because you will always get out what you put in. and that this journey is a lifetime learning experience. to this day I discover something new. This does not mean that all of it is good,but I learned something new nonetheless. Welcome aboard

 

[Julia]

Not that it matters nor does anyone care, but...

The amount of theory I know wouldn't fill a thimble.
I rejected much of the musical "system" and made my own.

#1. Reading music was nearly impossible for me, being partly dyslexic

#2. I don't like the sound of ALL the scales, so why learn them?

#3. The standard number of notes is 7, right? WRONG! There are 12 notes! The system of A,B,C,D,E,F,G is so whacked it frustrated me within 6 months of playing guitar...so I tossed out learning much of the standard musical notations.

Don't get me wrong, I know my basic notes/chords and I learned enough to communicate with most average musicians.
My problem is simply this:
C sharp or D minor? What's that you say? It depends on the scale?
Horsehockey!
A note should have the same designation no matter what the scale is.
If nobody else agrees, then I must be the biggest outcast in music history.

No. A note doesn't have the same designation regardless of the scale. It usually depends upon what is going on around it. You have accidentals appear in music. Sometimes you use A#, and other times you use Bb for the same note because it would get way too cumbersome to use Bb all the time. Sometimes you even use, yes, B# for C if you're using C# in the same measure. Why not use Db you say. Because you're using D on the next note and the going back to C#, then back to D, perhaps.

A lot of musician's can't read music. Tabulature only works for SOME instruments. It doesn't work for piano, brass, and non-fretted string instruments.

The reason for the ABCDEFG is the way music is notated. I suppose you could have used ABCDEFGHIJKL and added spaces and lines to the grand staff so that every semi-tone would have it's own unique designation. We might be headed that way anyway with the micro-tonal stuff that's coming out. You know stuff that none of the Western instruments are capable of playing without alteration?

Guitar is my second instrument, not my primary. I'm always going to pretty much suck on it other than for simple rhythm stuff. It's a physical limitation. I've got serious issues with my left thumb.