No kidding about the boost!!!

[dboy5150]

OK, I'm a convert. I had an old Ibanez EQ Pedal that has a level adjust; if you leave the EQ settings flat, you can push the level up for a clean boost.
I plugged it in last night and was floored by the improved feel. Three assumptions i had were destroyed: that an input boost would overdrive the input to the Expression, would make the tone less defined, and would muddy up the Blackface. WRONG!!! The amp doesn't get louder, just more full and with an awesome feel.
Don't knock it till you try it!
I'm going to mount the Ibanez inside the rack case so I can still adhere to my "no pedals" strategy (on the floor anyway), and leave it activated the whole time.

 

[MichaelG]

I use pretty high out put pick ups on my Paul, just the stock that come in the classic but they are pretty brutal, it's hard to get much of a clean out of them... I've tried boosting my grail and mr scary, it just sounds to fizzy to me, even with my pedal at noon and gain totally off it's just crazy how much gain those already have. The Brahma on the other hand LOVESSS the boost omg that thing about 10 oclock with a boost on the paul, is sex tone.

:twisted: :twisted:

Yup! Brahma and a boost. Some of the BEST tone I have ever had too. After my Mr Scary was upgraded by Dave F, there was NO fizzyness to be found. Same with the rest of my modules.

 

[Jaded Faith]

I went this route a few months back and find it tough to believe I never did it before either. I tried several boosts: BBE Boosta Grande, Xotic BB+ (up for sale now) and a Boss SD-1. The SD-1 was the way to go for me.

Something else you need to know about boosting is the way the circuit in the boost is set up effects the tone. Using the SD-1 for example, there is a resistor/cap in the signal chain that behaves similar to the C3/R??? in a given module. The SD-1 is designed to have it's frequency around 700hz. That high a frequency did wonders to tighten and focus the Randall high gain modules. It was my favorite for this application by far. The Xotic BB+ in comparison had a "Comp" button that adjusts the frequency to 300-500-1000hz depending on which channel and setting you are using on the pedal. I found in my rig and with my guitar, the SD-1 was voiced just right and hits it perfectly. I run it gain all the way down, volume all the way up and tone between 12:00 and 1:00. The feel is awesome and very responsive.

 

[riff man]

how are you RM4 guys boosting your rigs??? loop's / level shifters ??
i know your not doing it on the front end.

 

[nikki-k]

how are you RM4 guys boosting your rigs??? loop's / level shifters ??
i know your not doing it on the front end.

Why not on the front end? Up to the output of the modules, from what I have seen/read, the RM4 is the same as the other RM's. V1 provides a triode of level raising, modules do their work, off to.. wherever.

For boost, there are a few ways I like with Cathode Follower/ post gain tonestack amps... First is the classic "frown face" EQ, kick the overall out up a few to several dB. Cut the lows a bit to clean the mud, cut the hi's to allow it to bloom a bit more. Adjust output level, good to go! Second would be the clean boost.. a pedal made specifically for a boost. And third, a pedal I want to rebuy, ye olde Boss OD-1. Drive cracked a little bit, level to taste.. Jake E Lee used one, and basically it was a nice boost, and sucked a little of the lows out, allowing leads to really breathe.

Like has been said here... OD pedals can be great cause different ones accentuate or remove/dip certain frequencies; the curve is different, so it sort of imitates the "EQ Frown Face" thing I mentioned. Some boosts have treb, mid, bass.. nice!

 

[riff man]

i tried to boost the front end before with a DOD pedal for Shattners and giggles and i lost volume when ever i kicked it in and such ..perhaps i don't know how to do it right ....yet...

 

[riff man]

i tried to boost the front end before with a DOD pedal for Shattners and giggles and i lost volume when ever i kicked it in and such ..perhaps i don't know how to do it right ....yet...

well i tried this again last night ...although i eventualy got it to were i was not losing volume .... i never gained any volume out of the "boost" all i got was a compressed muffled sound to my ears .... i thought when you boost from the front you should at least gain some volume for leads and such ... boosted with a DOD super distortion level 10 ...gain 0 .... also tried a Biff Muff same levels ... SO ... i cannot boost the front end of my RM4 at all.. all i can do is change the "feel of tone" so i guess my next question is>>>
when you all say Boost ... are you refering to tone manipulation or Volume?
cheers

 

[crankyrayhanky]

I'm not getting a whole lot of increase in volume, my purpose is in adding an extra edge and tone shape

I don't hear a lot of DOD users out there with the mts, maybe it's not a great combination (?)

 

[nikki-k]

Boosting can do certain things, and understanding how an amplifier works can help immensely with predicting what may, or should, happen.

With a tube (guitar) amp, V1 is "set in stone." IOW, depending on V1 choice, there is only so much signal that it can take before it says, "That's it. No more room." It won't put out any more "volume." And what you do put in becomes more and more "smashed" and inarticulate. Think of a garden hose- only so much water can be expelled. and there will be a point where it goes from smooth flow to chaos trying to escape (OK, not that bad ). HOW that V1 tube alters the sound put in is where the boost comes in (IMO). If you have very low output pickups, then a boost will increase the volume, and more noticeably so than with a higher output pickup. If that front end (V1) is already being hit hard enough, no more apparent volume will result. However, the timbre and feel *could* change, once again depending on if you have already exhausted what V1 is built to handle/do. With most pickups, there is PLENTY of *headroom* with the initial part of the circuit (up to and including V1) that a boost will increase volume, as well as alter timbre and feel.

Add frequency dependence to all of that, and you have a pretty open field to play in. As an example, EVH preferred lower output (comparatively) pickups, PAF style with a slight kick. But, he also had pedals inline that would boost. Using that versus simply increasing pickup output produces a different result. Had he opted for, say, a DiMarzio X2N + a clean boost and no EQ or other pedals, he would likely have flooded his Marshall with low and hi end, probably making his resulting tone mushy and inarticulate (comparatively).

As far as boosting for leads.. playing a chord is different than a single note, and the circuit reacts (slightly) differently. That single note has enough "room" left on top of it for some "grease" and "juice." Make it sing. Make it sustain a bit more. Make it more articulate, or less.

So, long story short, yes- you will gain volume in certain situations, and not in others. It all depends on how hard V1 is being hit, the circuit just before it, and what tube is in V1. There is more to it, but I think I got it for the most part. Please feel free to correct me My brain is too mushy these days...

 

[riff man]

thx for the info !!!
i think as well as.. some one meantioned the DOD may not have reacted well with RM 4 ...

i got a Boss DS-1 to try out next ...any one use this before ...( i picked it up for $15, can't go wrong with that price lol )

 

[nikki-k]

I will try some stuff with my RM4 today.

What tube is in V1 btw? Pickups you are trying?

 

[TheHunter]

riff man,

from my experiences with the RMs and boosting is OD vs DS, I used an MT2 once with the gain-0 and the level-10 and the EQ-dialed to my likeing, this didnt provide great results, so I then bought the infamous TubeScreamer TS-9 and tried the same setup, Gain-0, tone to likeing, and Level cranked, and vuala clean, clear, articulate signal boost, It just adds dynamics to the low end, and really pulls the highs and mids together for a tighter more focused sound.
I dont really notice a huge volume spike persay when I hit the pedal on but more so simply a BOOST.

So IMHO I think you trying to run a DISTORTION pedal in front could be deterring you from the ultimate goal your trying to achieve. SIGNAL BOOST

Try a BOSS SD-1 or a dedicated Overdrive Pedal. I have the SD-1 and it just plain kills for the price and its so easy to mod.

 

[riff man]

Great thx for the info ..
nikki-k>
I have have a steve special HB in the bridge and a stock tube's in the RM 4 i believe

 

[okstrat]

Guys, you will never get a volume boost by putting a boost in the front end on an already distorted signal. Think of it this way -

A clean sound is like a glass half full of water. If you add more volume (water) to it, it will fill up more. You have headroom to spare. With me so far?

An already overdriven tone is like a glass of water nearly full. You can add more water, but it will spill out the sides (more saturation) but not put any more water in the glass, so to speak - you won't get any more volume. If you LOSE volume, then you are compressing the signal.

If you boost for overdrive tones, you'll need to keep this in mind...

1) run more volume and less gain on your pedal
2) run a lot less gain on your module
3) You'll have to tweak it and find the right balance. Most guys started using pedals like this into amps that didn't have much natural gain to begin with...

Also note that you're going to add a bit of hiss, and you will likely lose some string to string clarity. Boosting in my opinion works best with lead tones, rhythms can get muddy really easily when boosting.

Pete

 

[chasing shadows]

So true Pete! I use a Barber Direct Drive and I have the gain at almost down to 0. Works great that way.

 

[riff man]

Guys, you will never get a volume boost by putting a boost in the front end on an already distorted signal. Think of it this way -

A clean sound is like a glass half full of water. If you add more volume (water) to it, it will fill up more. You have headroom to spare. With me so far?

An already overdriven tone is like a glass of water nearly full. You can add more water, but it will spill out the sides (more saturation) but not put any more water in the glass, so to speak - you won't get any more volume. If you LOSE volume, then you are compressing the signal.

If you boost for overdrive tones, you'll need to keep this in mind...

1) run more volume and less gain on your pedal
2) run a lot less gain on your module
3) You'll have to tweak it and find the right balance. Most guys started using pedals like this into amps that didn't have much natural gain to begin with...

Also note that you're going to add a bit of hiss, and you will likely lose some string to string clarity. Boosting in my opinion works best with lead tones, rhythms can get muddy really easily when boosting.

Pete

this is exactly what i had thought and been told in the past...
i guess i thought i was missing something ...but now i can see where everyone is coming from when they say "boosting" a channel

with my very limited experience trying this so far ... i'm not a fan of boosting ..although i will probably still mess around with it once in a while ...to see i can come up with some interesting shades of current modules ...
thanks for all the input guys...

 

[shred-o-holic]

Guys, you will never get a volume boost by putting a boost in the front end on an already distorted signal. Think of it this way -

A clean sound is like a glass half full of water. If you add more volume (water) to it, it will fill up more. You have headroom to spare. With me so far?

An already overdriven tone is like a glass of water nearly full. You can add more water, but it will spill out the sides (more saturation) but not put any more water in the glass, so to speak - you won't get any more volume. If you LOSE volume, then you are compressing the signal.

If you boost for overdrive tones, you'll need to keep this in mind...

1) run more volume and less gain on your pedal
2) run a lot less gain on your module
3) You'll have to tweak it and find the right balance. Most guys started using pedals like this into amps that didn't have much natural gain to begin with...

Also note that you're going to add a bit of hiss, and you will likely lose some string to string clarity. Boosting in my opinion works best with lead tones, rhythms can get muddy really easily when boosting.

Pete

Very true all of that.......it is DEFINITELY finding the right balance between the pedal and the module gain and tone wise......also for the hissing......I run (don't laugh :lol: ) two gates.....that's right two gates......one last in the chain in front of the amp....so.....guitar---od pedal---gate---front input....this first one will eliminate all pedal hiss on the front end.....the other is in the loop....I want dead silence when I stop playing.....now I know people probably think this setup is overkill....but with the right tweaking it works incredibly well.....I'm playing some pretty heavy stuff though so keep that in mind....

 

[riff man]

so i got a chance to rip my boss ds-1 last night ... very interesting result's ... i got a "slight volume rise" out of it and it managed to push the module a bit into saturation land ... i need to play with the balancing but i think i'm understanding why some guys like to boost everything.

cheers

 

[Mailman1971]

Yes....lots of TWEAKING needed between the pedal and the module and the amp till you find the perfect balance. What my sound like HEAVEN tone to me.....might sound too distorted to someone else.
As long as it works for your situation, then it must be right!

 

[GtrGeorge!]

While I LOVE pedals (and I have quite an impressive collection,btw)..I have often found that in terms of boosting, if you are already using the right pickup for you, and the right module, the right power amp and speakers..then the difference that a boost will get you is quite small.
(I think OK Strat was hinting at this.)
And you'll pay a price to get that slight difference in tone...increased noise (hiss, perhaps hum), reduced actual dynamics, inability to play double stops and certainly chords etc etc.
So it isnt FREE...there is a price to pay. And alot of people here are already using EMGs and high gain modules. No wonder I often hear talk of "Mud".
Welll changing caps can only do so much (and btw...I had a cap change done on some of my modules)..
my point is: Boosting isnt for everybody..and it comes at a price. For many..it wouldnt surprize me if you just starting leaving the boost pedal at home after a few months.