Synergy - identical Red and Blue channels - do they really sound the same ?

[Metz]

The BE and the BE-BB are not the same module.
The BE has two identical crunch / medium gain channels.
The BE-BB has two differen channels, a clean and a crunch channel.
The BE-BB crunch channel sounds very much the same as the BE channel,
but the BE-BB clean channel is completely defferent and it has it's own EQ section.

I would say the BE-BB uses all four stages, but I have to look it up to be sure.

I don't know how Randall or Synergy are distributing the part designations,
but usually you start with V1 for rhe input tube.
The zwo tubes located inside of the modules should normally be V2 and V3.
FX-send-return is the next tube being V4 and the phase inverter should be V5.

I got no clue which tube is V2 or V3 in the module.
Maybe it changes from module to module. Not very likely, but possible.

I seen in some of the Randall modules v2 was on left and v3 was on right when facing the knobs, so I’m guessing it’s the same for the syn modules . So is v2 like the eq section and v3 a pi or are all tubes being used for everything all the time ?

 

[Telmar]

Hi (again) !

I disassembled my BE-BB module and here are my findings:
1.) it makes use of all four stages
2.) Synergy calls the left tube V1 and the right tube V2 (looking at the knobs)
3.) one stage of V2 is wired as a cathode follower

Conclusion:
If we look at the whole unit (host-amp and module) module V1 is the whole amps V2 and module V2 is the whole amps V3.
This should also be the correct technical sequence, bacause a cathode follower is usually the last stage
and the cathode follower is one of the stages of module V2 / amp V3.

 

[Metz]

Hi (again) !

I disassembled my BE-BB module and here are my findings:
1.) it makes use of all four stages
2.) Synergy calls the left tube V1 and the right tube V2 (looking at the knobs)
3.) one stage of V2 is wired as a cathode follower

Conclusion:
If we look at the whole unit (host-amp and module) module V1 is the whole amps V2 and module V2 is the whole amps V3.
This should also be the correct technical sequence, bacause a cathode follower is usually the last stage
and the cathode follower is one of the stages of module V2 / amp V3.

Awesome. ! You are a scholar sir , I didn’t expect this , what a great contribution to the forums . I was looking at your data from the different modules and I find it interesting and I appreciate your enthusiasm and dedication to the forums .

 

[Metz]

Hi (again) !

I disassembled my BE-BB module and here are my findings:
1.) it makes use of all four stages
2.) Synergy calls the left tube V1 and the right tube V2 (looking at the knobs)
3.) one stage of V2 is wired as a cathode follower

Conclusion:
If we look at the whole unit (host-amp and module) module V1 is the whole amps V2 and module V2 is the whole amps V3.
This should also be the correct technical sequence, bacause a cathode follower is usually the last stage
and the cathode follower is one of the stages of module V2 / amp V3

Am I correct to state that the cathode follower basically takes the high impedance signal from v2 and v3 then lowers it down to low impedance , beefing up the tone , as to make is appear bigger and bolder ?

 

[Module]

The BB is the Buxom Betty Amp based on a mod Fender clean, the BE is the famous Brown Eye Amp, entirely two different amp modules in one unit. Personally I love the BB clean channel, very, very good. I come and go on the BE which it is avery good mod Marshall and indeed it's a workhorse utility choice. There are so many other modified Marshall modules it is hard to choose between them. I have to say still the Deliverance holds the ground w me but the 6505 (SLO as well) is a great one but the nod goes to Deliverance merely on its versatile adjustment range.

 

[Metz]

The BB is the Buxom Betty Amp based on a mod Fender clean, the BE is the famous Brown Eye Amp, entirely two different amp modules in one unit. Personally I love the BB clean channel, very, very good. I come and go on the BE which it is avery good mod Marshall and indeed it's a workhorse utility choice. There are so many other modified Marshall modules it is hard to choose between them. I have to say still the Deliverance holds the ground w me but the 6505 (SLO as well) is a great one but the nod goes to Deliverance merely on its versatile adjustment range.

I have a be-50 deluxe which also has the cleans of the buxom betty , imo I like the be channel best for edge of break up tone , it can do a heavier modded Marshall style tones also , but I can get that tone with the SLO’s crunch channel so I’m using the be channel for some slight break up . Had to to change the tubes around to get it working , currently using a mitsushita in v1 and 2 teles smooth plates in v2 and v3 and the tone is clear , and breaks up just right , without the fizz . I also have a original Marshall jmp from 1977 that had the original tubes in it , and that amp does Edge of break up tones better then any other I’ve tried and willing to bet it a keystone to that style of tone . I like the tubes in it so much I spent 250$ on getting a set of the same tubes nos online.

 

[Module]

The BB is the Buxom Beauty amp based on a modified Fender twin clean. The BE is of course the Brown Eye modified Marshall Friedman version. Very different amp structure tones. I love the clean channel on this one and the BE channel is a pretty good workhorse.

 

[Module]

I have a be-50 deluxe which also has the cleans of the buxom betty , imo I like the be channel best for edge of break up tone , it can do a heavier modded Marshall style tones also , but I can get that tone with the SLO’s crunch channel so I’m using the be channel for some slight break up . Had to to change the tubes around to get it working , currently using a mitsushita in v1 and 2 teles smooth plates in v2 and v3 and the tone is clear , and breaks up just right , without the fizz . I also have a original Marshall jmp from 1977 that had the original tubes in it , and that amp does Edge of break up tones better then any other I’ve tried and willing to bet it a keystone to that style of tone . I like the tubes in it so much I spent 250$ on getting a set of the same tubes nos online.

So hard to find good tubes these days much less more exotic brands, very cool. I got a bunch of PSVANE I had pre tested which are turning out to be quite good. You can certainly reduce the gain structure by using lesser gain level tubes which would reduce fizz gain. Most mods I have seen do that in V1 of the older amp days. I am leery of altering the engineered design of the various modules. You can also change the cathode switch position on most of them which alters the feel. Normally 12AX7s are pretty robust and last a long time but these days manufacturing is not what it was for tubes especially. I heard a US maker is going to start up production here but have not heard anything else about it in some time.

 

[Metz]

So hard to find good tubes these days much less more exotic brands, very cool. I got a bunch of PSVANE I had pre tested which are turning out to be quite good. You can certainly reduce the gain structure by using lesser gain level tubes which would reduce fizz gain. Most mods I have seen do that in V1 of the older amp days. I am leery of altering the engineered design of the various modules. You can also change the cathode switch position on most of them which alters the feel. Normally 12AX7s are pretty robust and last a long time but these days manufacturing is not what it was for tubes especially. I heard a US maker is going to start up production here but have not heard anything else about it in some time.

I know what you mean , it’s harder to get a decent edge of break up tone with todays production tubes . I spent about 500$ on nos tubes , so I would have back ups . Matsushita in v1 and 2 smooth plate teles in v2 and v3 . Amazing tone with perfect edge of break up .

 

[Telmar]

Am I correct to state that the cathode follower basically takes the high impedance signal from v2 and v3 then lowers it down to low impedance , beefing up the tone , as to make is appear bigger and bolder ?

Here is the Marshall JCM 800 (Model 2204) pre amp schematic

 

[Telmar]

Anode and anode resistors = red
Grid and = yellow
Cathode and cathode resistor and capacitor (just an option) = green

Do you see the last stage ?
The signal is taken from the cathode (green arrow), and not as before from the anode (red arrow) !
And there is no anode resistor and the cathode resistor is 50 or more times higher.
This is the cathode follower, you use it if you want current not voltage (gain).
You are absolutely correct, this circuit is able to drive lower loads !
That's why some designs use one as the FX send output tube.
And it has a slightly different tonal characteristic, because it distorts different from the standard anode circuit.

Some people think it's necessary for the tone circuit, but that's not true.
Marshall did it this way, but ENGL usually did not, so it's not a must-have to drive the tone circuit.

 

[Metz]

Here is the Marshall JCM 800 (Model 2204) pre amp schematic

Wow nice detail on the diagram , impressive. You seem to have a great knowledge on this topic.

 

[Module]

I am in awe of the brains it takes to design and build good sounding stuff. Every time I look at a Synergy module, just blows my mind how one understands all that and what it does and why. My forte is playing I leave the electronics to the enlightened. Synergy is the best thing to happen to guitar since the 1st decent amp was rendered! What an amazing idea, I only hope they continue on and keep new stuff coming.

 

[Metz]

I am in awe of the brains it takes to design and build good sounding stuff. Every time I look at a Synergy module, just blows my mind how one understands all that and what it does and why. My forte is playing I leave the electronics to the enlightened. Synergy is the best thing to happen to guitar since the 1st decent amp was rendered! What an amazing idea, I only hope they continue on and keep new stuff coming.

I like knowing these things so it can help me choose which tube I want to use for each position , for an example if I want more clean headroom and less gain I’d prob want to use a different type of tube in v1 , and or if I don’t like the tubes that come stock which is usually what happens is I’ll change them for some nos tubes that will help me further succeed in getting the tone I prefer . A lot of the newer 12ax7’s break up to early and sound harsh in the upper mids imo so it’s nice being able to smooth that out if possible . I wouldn’t use nos tubes in high gain applications tho because it’s a waste of a good tube haha . High gain is the easiest tone to achieve imo , and doesn’t take much thought into getting it sounding good . I like less gain , or just enough to get a little bite when I did into the strings , it seems to create a wider dynamic range that is more complex then just straight clean , or high gain .