Why Isn't MTS Huge?

[SteelDragon]

With the success that AXE, 11 Rack, et al have had with digitally modeling tube amps, why haven't actual tube modeling amps not become a huge success?

Do you think another brand will take MTS-type modelers to the heights Randall should have reached?

I'm interested to hear theories on this....

 

[jayd41]

It was never marketed properly.

I have yet to meet another guitarist locally that knows anything about it. Yet when I explain it to them, they are amazed and impressed.

 

[Jaded Faith]

Two things:

1: Failure to market it properly
2: Lack of brick and mortar retailers to expose the concept to the masses

 

[Jsgregg]

Two things:

1: Failure to market it properly
2: Lack of brick and mortar retailers to expose the concept to the masses

This exactly.

I knew nothing about MTS until a few months ago. I have never once seen an MTS amp in a GC or Sam Ash. I look at it as dumb luck that I found it at all...or maybe it was divine intervention :wink: I can't believe the versatility and the quality of tone that is available (or was available I guess).

 

[madDdog67]

I think cost was a factor as well. Case in point was the RM22. Well over $1000 for an 18watt non cork-sniffer brand amp depending where you bought it.

The one I bought was defective and had to go back...at that point, I told 'em just to refund me the money based on the cost. When the prices started do drop here lately, I bought 3 amps, so perceived value does enter into it, even for folks that think the system is cool.

 

[soundscapes]

I was just thinking the same thing after a session with my mod 50. It's just simply a genius design.

 

[kc2eeb]

Having bought a Seymour Duncan Convertible 1000 amp in '84, ( I now have 3 of them) and followed the MTS line since the beginning, (RM50, RT2/50, RM4, 14 modules) I can only come to one conclusion why they're not a huge success....
A lot of people are just too DUMB to use them.
Please pardon my political incorrectness.

 

[Julia]

1. Lack of marketing
2. Lack of marketing
3. Most stock modules need modding to match the real deals.

4. High quality modeling works better for 90% of the players because they don't gig anymore and sound better at low volume.

FWIW.... the brick and mortar stores in my area have had a fire sale on Marshall amps that they've had in stock for the past 3 yrs and have not sold. They finally sold all of them at about 40% off MAP. No I didn't get any even at those prices. Why? They're too loud for my use. I don't gig. I'm at the age where I crap out at 11:00 pm.

So what does the store get? Orange amps. Now they're going to sit there for years, too. Why? Because the economy still sucks. And with the situation in Europe and people beating the drums of war in the Persian Gulf again get ready for another downturn. China is even shedding jobs. Fuel prices? There is no shortage of refined gasoline -- the oil companies over refined and they're shipping it overseas.

 

[Anomaly]

Well Hopefully when Bruce Almighty takes over the MTS line again the next generation would clear all the faulty Randall issue's and tweak it to Boutique standard include the grid power section of the tourmaster, improved presence/density circuit.. I don't care if it's build in China :wink:

'Til then I'll wait before I decide to buy another MTS amp

 

[hunter]

Retailers aren't keen on carrying a collection of expensive modules that might not sell.

 

[Kapo_Polenton]

The biggest one.. as Julia said, most stock modules need to be modded to match the real deal. The sad thing is, on some of the modules, Randall ALMOST had it.. 3-4 changes a module, a bypass cap here or there or a cap in a different spot and the module comes alive and has clarity. They should have spent more time in R n D, then marketing.

 

[GtrGeorge!]

Hello???? McFly???????

the reasons are obvious,

1.The Marketing sucked
(Randall and US Music were never able to break into stores that had "relationships" with other brands. Hint: they were refused equal access to retail.

2. The economy tanked.
It sucked all the available money out of the market place, so no matter how good the product, you couldn't move it.

3. The product is a niche' product.
Sad to say, not everyone likes good tone. Not everyone can handle a product with more than 3 knobs. Not everyone needs a design that costs as much as an MTS does, Takes up space like an MTS does,weighs like an MTS does etc. etc.
Always remember the average guitarist quits after about a 3 months. I worked in a music store. It's just a fact. So most consumers of amps never stick around long enough to develop the need for a better amp than their "$69 Gorilla"amp."


oh and btw, all this almost doesn't matter, Fender has made epic mistakes,Marshall has ,as well. A good product (like a favorite TV show) can live on many many years after its supposed "demise".
So if ya wanna throw out your 54 Strat cause you want a fresh one, Let me know. (wink)

GtrGeorge

 

[Mattfig]

Here's my blunt answer....

Unless the MTS systems somehow get authentic Marshall, Mesa, etc. modules - the tone snobs will not come to the party...We all know that licensing and cooperation will never happen and we also know that the modded mods we all have sound as good as the original. Yet I've never once been able to get a tone snob to even give it a fair shake...

Simple truth...

I think putting the Egnater magic back in is going to help for sure but it will never be a huge deal to the masses...The masses are stupid....

 

[GtrGeorge!]

With respect to everyone....

I don't think the failure of the MTS system was because the modules weren't close enough. Most people never got to even hear them....
The cork sniffers are weird people..I know alot of em, Im sure you do,too. I think a small effort was made to make those miserable people happy ("Look George Lynch likes these amps, say...Kirk Hammet thinks they're pretty swell, too,kids!!!!!!!!)
But I don't think was the deciding factor. (in MTS amps failing in the marketplace) .
And yeah, the stock modules could certainly be better...but if you cant see a product,hear a product...a consumer never gets to that point.

GtrGeorge
(MTS hoarder..and proud of it!!!!!!!!! Go ahead put me on a cable TV show....)

 

[m0jo]

Here's my blunt answer....

Unless the MTS systems somehow get authentic Marshall, Mesa, etc. modules - the tone snobs will not come to the party...We all know that licensing and cooperation will never happen and we also know that the modded mods we all have sound as good as the original. Yet I've never once been able to get a tone snob to even give it a fair shake...

Simple truth...

I think putting the Egnater magic back in is going to help for sure but it will never be a huge deal to the masses...The masses are stupid....

I don't agree with the "it would never happen" point ... look at Amplitube, Guitar Rig and such, they are liscensing amps left and right. With the right business attitude it could definitly work.

Personally I think the problem lies mostly with marketing, and that includes the image/styling of the amps.

 

[Hamner1]

Marketing would definately help. And I agree with Rob in that more Brick & Mortar buildings to have the product out there to test. I can remember as a kid all the rage about the JCM800. My frame of reference was a VTM60, which I thought sounded pretty good. When I actualluy got to plug into a JCM800, it was no contest, the 800 lived up to the rage. Had I not had that experience, I would have been content with VTM60.

But even so, I wonder how much of a market you have for this. This product is really something for tone whores & those musicians who need/want a bunch of tones.

 

[madDdog67]

Well, I don't think the cork sniffers would ever have bought a Randall if (insert deity of your choice) himself endorsed it, so I don't think that market was ever in Randall's sights.

As for value, let's stick with the RM22 (which I really liked, I'm not picking on it because I hate it). The best deal I found before the bottom started falling out was $1050 w/ 2 modules, the XTC and the Deluxe. At this point, you can get an EVH 5150 III 50w or a Laney Ironheart 60, a Carvin V3M (50/22/7w) OR a Legacy III (100w) for less than that, and I guarantee you those amps will do anything the RM22 could do stock with those 2 mods.

Add in the fact that most people who decide to get into the MTS stuff realize that they're gonna be spending $$ to get mods done, and you're talking major league money to get a foreign amp that most people regard as kind of 2nd tier in the first place. That's a tough row to hoe even for the best marketers in the world.

 

[Mattfig]

Here's my blunt answer....

Unless the MTS systems somehow get authentic Marshall, Mesa, etc. modules - the tone snobs will not come to the party...We all know that licensing and cooperation will never happen and we also know that the modded mods we all have sound as good as the original. Yet I've never once been able to get a tone snob to even give it a fair shake...

Simple truth...

I think putting the Egnater magic back in is going to help for sure but it will never be a huge deal to the masses...The masses are stupid....

I don't agree with the "it would never happen" point ... look at Amplitube, Guitar Rig and such, they are liscensing amps left and right. With the right business attitude it could definitly work.

Personally I think the problem lies mostly with marketing, and that includes the image/styling of the amps.

Really? That would be cool but I didn't really think anyone thought it would happen- maybe there is hope...I know Marshall and the like allow the use of their name with certain software or POD-like applications...I just figured they would stop short of calling another tube amp with different wiring and completely different output section a Marshall...That would be the same as Ford coming out with a new truck with a Honda engine...I know Ford doesn't mind miniature trucks being made with the Ford name because everyone would know it isn't a real truck...I figured the same between a POD and a tube amp...

Does anyone know if the major brand amp makers have ever been approached about MTS licensing? I always assumed they had but maybe I'm totally off-base here...

 

[Nightdare]

Also look at what you're getting

If I wanted a Marshall, a JVM was cheaper than an RM100 with 3 modules

Do I want a Mesa? Sure a Mk IV/V(/Rectifier) is more expensive than the MTS line
Apart from the options Mesa amps have as well
Randall's offerings in the Boogie dept. weren't that convincing, not to mention Mesas don't tank their value if you trade them in,

Do I want multiple amps? Well a Line6 or even AXE-FX is cheaper than a fully loaded RM4 with more options to boot

So the MTS' versatility comes at a cost of a module every time, we have low exposure amps,
that are targeted to the few that want multiple amps but no digital modelling,
or those that want certain characteristics of different amps of another brand in one amp

 

[GtrGeorge!]

thats all folks.
GtrGeorge