Why Isn't MTS Huge?

[Julia]

After two experiences with Marshall amps.... one just wasn't what I wanted, and the other one blew up.... I came to the conclusion that they are basically way overpriced and poor quality. People who can afford them now are either kids who buy the MG model because they're cheap and look impressive, or older guys who buy them because they saw the Duane Allman playing one back in 1970 -- I guess that's move onto saw EVH playing one in the early 1980s.

It's the same with guitars. I was in the store yesterday waiting and picked up a new Takamine acoustic that was about $700 and it blew away my $2400 Gibson J45 both in feel and in tone (goddess I've grown to hate the vintage frets), again showing me yet another product that is way way overpriced -- I don't think Gibson could make a decent neck on a guitar if their lives depended on it. The instrument made me sound good. PS: the store didn't carry Takamine at the time, but now no longer carries Gibson due to costs of being a Gibson dealer.

Maybe Bruce can breathe life back into this series. I hope so. It deserves a second chance. I really am so I can get a decent price for mine. By then I'm going to be in my 60s. Hardly a need for a big amp anymore in case you're wondering why I'm downsizing everything and down noising everything. I'm not expecting much for a couple years given the state of the global economy.

 

[The Rossness]

If Bruce can get GC to carry the modular line and train the employees on how to handle modules and take them in and out of the amps, I think from a marketing and in-store standpoint, it would introduce lots of people to the concept.


What I think would help the modular line is a model of just about every amp that's out there, so no matter who you are, your tonal pallet could be satisfied. Hire Rob and Anthony as outside consultants. Have a R&D team at Egnater who is always coming up with new models. Have the amps and modules made in china to offset the cost. If I could get 10 different preamps for $1000, a power amp for $500-$700 (with DI, lines in and out, FX loop, headphone jack, 4,8, 16 ohm jacks ans the self biasing system, digital effects) and a speaker cab for $400, It would put something like an axe fx to shame and make owners of less expensive modlers like the 11 rack and L6 pods see there is a solution that doesn't break the bank and lets them create what they want in a modeler.

 

[fuzzboat]

Simple truth...

I think putting the Egnater magic back in is going to help for sure but it will never be a huge deal to the masses...The masses are stupid....

True


but I bet if someone like marshall or boogie with "namestatus" came out with this very same MTS modular system the masses would be all over it.

Simpler truth

most people are status driven and they show that by how they spend their $$

 

[GtrGeorge!]

Thats all folks
GtrGeorge

 

[rhequiem]

George, I totally agree with you. I don't think places like Guitar Center are the right place for MTS stuff, and I haven't commented on it before. It certainly couldn't hurt, for example, to have an RM1250 display connected to a 2x12 with decent speakers in it @ GCs for people to try. It wouldn't take up that much room, and Egnater amps are already carried by these chains, so it doesn't seem like it would be that much of a barrier to entry for Bruce to negotiate it. However, having the modular amps themselves be a little less expensive I think would certainly help new people buy into the MTS line. Maybe Bruce can get the costs down with overseas manufacture, IDK - but having an MTS starter package with a single or dual slot format, 18w, and a couple of starter modules for $400-$500 might help more people try it out. Marketing would certainly help, especially if the mts stuff never made it into the large chain stores. I'm curious to see what approach Bruce and Egnater take with it. I'm a full supporter, and hope for nothing but the best for Bruce and the mts line

 

[KillTone]

I'm not sure what the music retail environment is like in other areas but here in the East Bay Area Guitar Center totally destroyed all of the other stores that carried anything of any quality. For the last 15 years all we have had is Guitar Center or some mom and pop store that caters to beginners (no guitars or amps over $300). I could drive all the way to San Fran to check out other good stores but with my schedule and Bay Area traffic I don't have time to spend an entire day to just browse music gear.

I spoke to the manager of the local GC about the MTS line and his response was kind of strange. He said "we will NEVER carry Randall amps here" with a really angry/hateful tone. Not sure where that came from but obviously there is a problem there.

Bottom line is - like many of you have said, if a brand can't get into GC you pretty much can't see it. What gives me hope is that Eganter seems to have broken into GC with their other products. Hopefully that will lead to his modular amps getting in.

 

[The Rossness]

I read the most recent posts (that came after my last one..)
some thoughts:
Why would Bruce work hard NOW at making MTS succesful?? Unless something drastic changed, it seems to me..if he was gonna really push MTS he would have done that already. And btw, with all respect.he probably did work very hard..but if you cant get your product into the big chains you're screwed...doesnt anybody (here) really get this?

And getting the entire palette of tones out there?????????
Sorry, but...who exactly will pay for this set-up to make all those modules? And still, what store has the shelf space for all of them? ... when all of that shelf space has been promised to Fender and Marshall.

GtrGeorge

Digital molders seem to be successful because they offer the end user so many different tones, that the user will be satisfied. Every so often, patches and firmware are released to update the product. The patches often include new amp models. The patches/ firmware are free. Since MTS can't compete in that area, giving the user the choice to create their optimal tonal pallet from the start would seem like a good idea.

For all of the modules, use something like an RM1250 and keep the "For Sale" modules in back.

 

[Rod]

I think one of the issues that I had originally with the line was that it had the Randall name on it. My first MTs amp was a 100 watt Lynchbox I got on trade. I don't even like George lynch's tone... just not my thing... but the amp sounded great. Randall to me was heavy metal. I'm a blues rocker. After some great dealings with Rob at Jaded Faith and Scott at Sacred Groove I got some outrageous sounding modules for my style of playing. The newist being Rob' s and my idea for a Dumble preamplifier module that sounds like a Dumble amp! The R'Verb, the XTC, plexi, vox. All classic rock tones, some better sounding than the original amps Imo. But you folks are right, the cork sniffers aren't into practical, they want $3000 and up one trick pony amps.. I know.. I've. Been there.. as Julia painfully reminds me of the number of Two Rock amps I have owned. Although GC is the wolly world of music stores, I think as others have said, Bruce E would really have to go into the stores....or have us here do it! And educate the salesfolks at how the MTS system can work. Let's see. If a Renegade 50 head can sell for $995, an empty MTS 50 Head could sell for $700. $750? The stock module price has got to come down made in China. Say $150 each. Then a loaded RM50 head could sell for $1050. Combo, add $100 more like mesa boogie does. Then the store gets all this repeat business from selling more aftersale modules. $150 a pop is one thing. $300 each is a whole different price point.
And cosmetically, keep the line basic black with the smaller gold logo. Do away with that 2 tone creme.black old look.
I really WOULDLIKE to think it would work. Or is 2Kceeb right in saying that most guitarists are to stupid to get it,? I hope not. We shall see. And where is my E2?

 

[Mike361]

Some will remember I posted on this years ago. I was in GC and the sales crew never heard of MTS line. Also, as I was guilty of the Randall name. All I new of was Dimebag used a SS one. But I read a review that got me curious and bought one. Anyway, I think the Egnater name will change everything. He has a lot of cred. We could see this thing explode.

 

[BigBrewtus]

Educated salesman would definitely help anywhere. Countless time Ive been to GC and other stores that had used MTS. I would start asking questions and they were completely clueless. I then would backout the thumbscrews and pop out a module from the amp. Then hear a WHOA! as they jumped back.
Ive never seen an Egnater MOD amp in any shops Ive been to. I hope this will change within the next year or so. Dont let us down Bruce!!

 

[GtrGeorge!]

Brewtus,,,
so let me understand this: You were surprized when minimum wage employees knew nothing about what they were selling?

That sounds typical of ALL stores that follow that formula...GC,Best Buy, etc etc

Sorry man....I just EXPECT it now.
GtrGeorge

 

[ameer]

The guys at the GC in Greenville SC where I used to live were mostly working musicians so we had some great in-depth chats about gear. Based on all the guitar center horror stories I've heard I count myself lucky. Never saw any MTS there though.

 

[GtrGeorge!]

ameer,
your experience is PROOF that the failure of MTS wasnt because of poor salespeople..thought they certainly existing in great numbers...but because GC NEVER would stock the product.
Case closed.
One might ask why. And that's when you find out that you are not being offered the best products. You are not being offered the widest range of products, even. And best prices? Actually that's night really the case,either.
So tell me again why you bother going there......(rhetorical)

GtrGeorge

 

[Caine]

As for stocking the product, like anything else, I would say that?s driven by demand. If people are regularly calling and coming it and right away asking about the MTS stuff, at some point, stores are going to start putting in more orders to keep more stuff on hand. What creates demand? Marketing. Marketing and keeping product on the selves are two things that go hand in hand. I echo what others have said and that I believe that the number one problem has been weak marketing.

Anyone that has been into Randall for any length of time knows they have been pretty good on the R & D side and inconsistent on the customer service side and horrible on the marketing side.

MTS has been around for years, yet many long time guitar players still have no idea what MTS is?have never heard of it. It?s hard to put a number on it? is it safe to say that 90% or more of guitar players have no idea what MTS is? Or could it be 95%? 99%? The other point about needing to mod stock modules?that is a moot point if you have never even heard of MTS. IMO, that are a lot of great stock modules? IMO the Deluxe nails that vintage Fender mojo quite well. The SL+, especially the more recent ones, are ?80?s Marshall stack? all the way and sound great out of the box. And for that matter, you can argue just how close the other modelers truly replicate the amp they are supposed to emulate. In many cases, players run there modelers like an effect pedal and run them through the pre-amp section and they are colored by whatever amp they are running them through?rather than going directly to the power amp section. So a ?tweed? through a Marshall or a ?Marshall? through a Fender Bassman isn?t going to nail whatever the modeler is supposed to replicate. That is what is great about MTS is the module IS the preamp section and you can?t really screw up how you run it.

Someone mentioned cost? Have you seen what the Mesa Road King and the Mesa Roadster are going for-- USED? The Roadster is supposed to be a down graded version of the Road King?because the Road King was overloaded with features that some players didn?t care about. Nonetheless, people are paying big $$ for what is basically a four channel modeling amp?and you can?t even swap out the pre-amp sections like you can with the MTS stuff. I do wish the RM100s had four channels though. I was going to buy a Road king back in about 2006 or 2007 and only found out about the MTS stuff by accident?probably because I was into George Lynch and took the time to study up on what MTS was.

You can pick up used modules at pretty reasonable prices. I don?t think cost is really the biggest issue but I do think that new modules are somewhat over-priced. They used to be fairly priced and then there was a somewhat significant bump up in price a few years ago. When I first got into MTS, the signature modules?street price, was $199.00 and that is what I paid for my Scary, Grail, Brahma and SuperV. Last year (December 2010) I paid $300 for the Judge which is too much for a single module. Anyway, $150-200 for regular production and $200-250 for signatures would be fair street prices. I paid around $700 for the RM100LB (no module price) back when it first came out. A slight downward adjustment in the prices of the modules and better marketing would help tremendously.

But back to the marketing issue, even if you see an ad in a magazine with George Lynch or whoever standing next to a MTS stack, it doesn?t really get the point across very well as to what MTS is. When I go into the local music store, the MTS stuff just blends in with everything else and you?d never know that the pre-amp sections are swappable unless and took the time to check it out, by accident, and have someone other than that 16 y/o kid, that might be the only sales person available, explain what MTS is all about.

 

[kc2eeb]

Well said.

 

[wyd-open]

I was looking into getting my first tube amp back in November. One of my friends on another forum was selling a few Heads and I researched them thoroughly. When I started checking into the RM100, I found it was just what I wanted. A real tube amp that I never had to replace. If I decide I don't like a channel, it's not unreasonably expensive to change it out. Even more of a benefit was shipping on a module is cheap. Shipping a 100lb head without damage is not. I have tried to turn other people on to the concept, but I agree that a lot of players are dumb and just don't get it or are just looking for a brand name. I have had a few SS heads and an 11 Rack. I still have a couple of SS heads, but the 11R went away pretty fast. I could never get the sound I wanted and it was just too much messing with menus and sub menus. The MTS line is a great thing and I would be sad to see such a great concept go the way of the cassette tape.

 

[GtrGeorge!]

"When I go into the local music store, the MTS stuff just blends in with everything else ..."


WOW!!! You know a music store that even HAS Randall MTS gear in it???
I live in a major metro are (NYC) I can name maybe 3 stores that have MTS gear (and its like one amp, period..been there for 4 years).

....not getting into more stores ,imho, was THE major problem.

If people see and hear it...it sells...............period.
If it isnt there..they dont know it even exists (like the 90% mentioned above).
GtrGeorge

 

[Caine]

well, as I was saying before, I think demand and having it in stock are two things that go hand in hand. if people are asking for it, stores would have to be keeping more of it in stock. like wyd-open said, i think people are "dumb" about the whole idea, even when he explained it to them---people still seem to have a preconcieved notion of what they want by brand name or whatever. the local music store typcially has a few items in the store all the time--I don't think so much because they are keeping it in stock, but because it doesn't sell very fast. As I was saying, it just blends in with everything else. the way the store is organized, amps are all crammed together and some stacked on top of each other if you didn't know what MTS was, you'd have no idea by just looking at it what it is all about. You would have to plug into it and start asking questions and perhaps people are not doing that when there is a Mesa or Marshall or whatever sitting next to it.

 

[frodgemo]

One thing I'd like to add: more distinctive faceplates on stock modules. Not only would this be more eye catching, but (and I hate to say this) it may also make these things "sound" better to some people who may not otherwise even give it a chance.

 

[m0jo]

One thing I'd like to add: more distinctive faceplates on stock modules. Not only would this be more eye catching, but (and I hate to say this) it may also make these things "sound" better to some people who may not otherwise even give it a chance.

Yes, basically it would give them more individual character. That wouldn't necessary make them sound better (even placebo wise) but it would definitly make people buy them quicker and be much more interested in the different tones.

Just look at the Mr. Scary and Grail, just because of the looks they feel like they have much more "quality".