kylendm
Well-known member
Well that's an opinion and you are entitled to it but I don't agree with what you said at all. It was pretty ignorant if you ask me. :?
Egnater update
- Thread starter bruce egnater
- Start date
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VitaminG
Well-known member
ShaskaOcelot said:
I don't think your "honesty" would bother anyone too much. Maybe your immature xenophobic rant would though. England is crap because they all hate America - that's the basis of your argument? Right...
slashnstrings
Well-known member
yeah the amp bashing with your first post ain't a good start, we talk about all the great things about all different amp manufactures/amps and if there are any flaws we "help" each other fix them....right all..
The bashing is on the kiddie forums, not found anywhere here.
and i don't get ruffled over anything, but i do think it pretty disrespectful to bash Marshall amps on a thread posted by an amazingly talented amp builder, who is letting his fellow musicians know that there is a change coming soon.
Speaking of which, Bruce do you have any new news for us about the change, or is it still to early in the process?
again, best of luck with the transition.
The bashing is on the kiddie forums, not found anywhere here.
and i don't get ruffled over anything, but i do think it pretty disrespectful to bash Marshall amps on a thread posted by an amazingly talented amp builder, who is letting his fellow musicians know that there is a change coming soon.
Speaking of which, Bruce do you have any new news for us about the change, or is it still to early in the process?
again, best of luck with the transition.
wengnutt
Well-known member
ShaskaOcelot said:
I honestly don't think "a good old-fashioned dose of honesty" is simply stating "Mexico Sucks" "England Sucks" etc, etc. You fail to give specific reasons for their "Suckyness" as you call it, which in turn makes your intelligence equivalent of a chopping block.
I'm american. From Texas actually, so I'm quite used to dealing with closed minded "trailer folk" like yourself who's febal attempt of coming off as the extreme macho type fails from your lack of tact and poor education. Perhaps if you were able to explain the butthurt that every foreign country has bestowed upon you, we might come to a level of understanding your opinion, however, you have failed to prove yourself as a worthy adversary from being the slack jawed yokle that you are with "facts" and "statistics" to back your words up.
If these words are too big for you, my apologies. I understand that not everyone can possess the skills and knowledge to pass the 3rd grade on their first try, but dog gonnit'....you gave it your best, Skippy!
Don't join a forum just to piss and moan about your personal beliefs. If the urge comes around again, just continue watching your WWF vhs tapes, and listening to Toby Keith. If it upsets you that bad, cry yourself to sleep at night on your Nascar pillow case.
Best of luck, Skippy! :wink:
bruce egnater
Well-known member
I'm sorry this thread took a wrong turn somewhere. I appreciate everyone's comments (both good and bad) and I believe I got the information I was seeking. Just a few points I would like to make about some of your comments.
Carvin: They are not connected to God. They have a unique business model that has worked for them for decades. Carvin does not have retail dealers, in case you didn't notice. They sell exclusively direct to the "end user" (you). This eliminates the additional profit/markup that occurs when the manufacturer sells their products through retail stores (the American way). In effect, they are selling their products at dealer cost direct to you. They are really the only company I know of who has been able to basically have a catalog sales only MI business. Trust me, most manufacturers envy them for their success in their unique market. The issue with this type of business is that you, the player, can't try the gear out so you must purchase basically unseen. They do have a liberal return policy but most small companies do not have the resoures to be able to do what they do.
Randall: RM4....RT2/50.....US made?
Last: Strat made a peculiar comment that if a Fender Strat is not "Japanese or American, they are cheap". Is this to imply that Japanese is acceptable and on par with American made but all other non-American made products suck?
Carvin: They are not connected to God. They have a unique business model that has worked for them for decades. Carvin does not have retail dealers, in case you didn't notice. They sell exclusively direct to the "end user" (you). This eliminates the additional profit/markup that occurs when the manufacturer sells their products through retail stores (the American way). In effect, they are selling their products at dealer cost direct to you. They are really the only company I know of who has been able to basically have a catalog sales only MI business. Trust me, most manufacturers envy them for their success in their unique market. The issue with this type of business is that you, the player, can't try the gear out so you must purchase basically unseen. They do have a liberal return policy but most small companies do not have the resoures to be able to do what they do.
Randall: RM4....RT2/50.....US made?
Last: Strat made a peculiar comment that if a Fender Strat is not "Japanese or American, they are cheap". Is this to imply that Japanese is acceptable and on par with American made but all other non-American made products suck?
crankyrayhanky
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Wow, identical Bruce post over at RigTalk yielded a much different thread
Thanks for the update chief!
Thanks for the update chief!
Goldfish
Well-known member
bruce egnater said:
I think some would imply that there are no QC differences between Japanese and say, Chinese or Mexican made products. I think many would dispute that notion. In any case I wish you the best of luck with your company and products. You have made some absolutely brilliant designs.
wengnutt said:
Resorting to name-calling hardly helps your case. Neither does displaying the same broad-strokes bigotry you claim to be against.
LRStrat
Well-known member
Vince said:
I did not drown you, just pointed out a tiny flaw in you posts & your hijacking of this thread.
You should start a new post with Chinese Vs. US products and leave this for Bruce to keep us informed of the modular line.
Ironically now I have pushed the thread off context
Sorry.
Call it bullshit all you want.... wait till your great grandbabies are working for the same wages as the little Chinese boy in China. We have started down the slope already.... I made the same amount before I was laidoff as I did 20 years ago. Why is that? H1B Visa holders that the government let into this country to do a my job for lower wages because companies were bitching that they couldn't find any high tech workers to fill those positions. Now that's bullshit.... it's just like every other unscrupilous business out there.... live for today... screw everyone else and it's all about the all mighty dollar no matter the cost to this nation and quality of life.
You want your global economy.... you can have it and everybody can live on 3rd world wages in 20 years.
Bruce can just stack it on top of the pile if he wants... nothing I can do about it except purge my equipment and buy from a manufacturer with a conscience.
You want your global economy.... you can have it and everybody can live on 3rd world wages in 20 years.
Bruce can just stack it on top of the pile if he wants... nothing I can do about it except purge my equipment and buy from a manufacturer with a conscience.
slashnstrings
Well-known member
I really thought we were more mature here....
sounds like you chose the wrong industry to get into I get a 5K raise pretty much every year for the past 3, i'm not complaining , but im pretty much capped now ...sadly, haha
hah hemm ... as i was saying, more mature here
Who cares where it is made? enjoy what you have and what you grew up drooling over.
the politics of business will never change.
I look forward to the change and being able to go to the music store and buy Egnater products without having to wait as long.
sounds like you chose the wrong industry to get into I get a 5K raise pretty much every year for the past 3, i'm not complaining
, but im pretty much capped now ...sadly, hahahah hemm ... as i was saying, more mature here
Who cares where it is made? enjoy what you have and what you grew up drooling over.
the politics of business will never change.
I look forward to the change and being able to go to the music store and buy Egnater products without having to wait as long.
GtrGeorge!
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Bruce ponderedfrom another poster) "Is this to imply that Japanese is acceptable and on par with American made but all other non-American made products suck?"
GtrGeorge reply: Im good friends with one of the guys who was VERY involved with Fenders American and Japanese factories. I dont feel comfortable naming him, but the point is: despite years of trying to make the Fender MIJ line as good as possible he recounted that many at fender gave up.(!)
Now, I (GtrGeorge), use many Japanese Strats..and love them!!!..but if one scrutinizes their line on many levels..it never had the acclaim or esteem that the American line does.
The American-made tag..does still have a value to it.
from another poster) "Is this to imply that Japanese is acceptable and on par with American made but all other non-American made products suck?"GtrGeorge reply: Im good friends with one of the guys who was VERY involved with Fenders American and Japanese factories. I dont feel comfortable naming him, but the point is: despite years of trying to make the Fender MIJ line as good as possible he recounted that many at fender gave up.(!)
Now, I (GtrGeorge), use many Japanese Strats..and love them!!!..but if one scrutinizes their line on many levels..it never had the acclaim or esteem that the American line does.
The American-made tag..does still have a value to it.
This thread has gotten me to think hard about this one. I have a couple of points I would like to share. (1) Vince, I don't want to sound disrespectful and I understand we need to keep American Jobs but I was wondering, do you buy all of you Egnater/Randall gear brand new. If not, then your arguments do not carry any merit. (2) If you do great! Even if you bought an RM100 or RM50 made overseas you are still helping America keep jobs regardless of where you bought it. I know a Music Store Owner that sells mostly import budget guitars from China, Korea, Etc. but that does not make him a bad guy because he is able to create jobs for his staff and teachers. Those people need work too and I know he would not be able to stay in business selling only American Made guitars and amps. Most people are not going to spend big bucks on a new USA guitar or amp for a beginner so what then? Should he close up shop because he doesn't sell only American gear. Also, I think Bruce outgrew his britches and is trying to come up with a reasonable solution to keep prices realistic. I know I could not afford even the Randall stuff brand new let alone the Egnater stuff brand new. Had to buy used, but I was glad I could get what I got because I finally got my tone.
Again, I am not trying to be disrespectful. Just trying to get everyone on this thread to look at it at a different angle.
Dave
Again, I am not trying to be disrespectful. Just trying to get everyone on this thread to look at it at a different angle.
Dave
It's all good. I have had 2 custom built amplifers in the last year.... American made. I traded one of those for the Randall RM50... I just spent over $500 on a 212 cab for it brand new from Randall.
So, I would say that the money I spent for one of the custom built amplifiers and traded for the Randall stayed in the pockets of Americans. It is a very complicated issue and very hard for people to understand... but we have to weigh these things out in our own minds to see what is important and if you want to support oursourcing and the fleecing of America. I myself manufacture a guitar product and a portion of those proceeds go to St Jude Children's Research Hospital. How many Asian manufacturers do that? I would venture to guess none.
You say that guy has a right to sell guitars manufactured in Asia and that Americans are benefiting from it by employing staff. Well sir... not a mere fraction of the jobs that would be created by producing the products.
So, I would say that the money I spent for one of the custom built amplifiers and traded for the Randall stayed in the pockets of Americans. It is a very complicated issue and very hard for people to understand... but we have to weigh these things out in our own minds to see what is important and if you want to support oursourcing and the fleecing of America. I myself manufacture a guitar product and a portion of those proceeds go to St Jude Children's Research Hospital. How many Asian manufacturers do that? I would venture to guess none.
You say that guy has a right to sell guitars manufactured in Asia and that Americans are benefiting from it by employing staff. Well sir... not a mere fraction of the jobs that would be created by producing the products.
Zander
Well-known member
Or instead of bitching about how The Chinaman has his boot on your throat, you could make Bruce a COMPELLING offer as to how you're going to help him expand operations (because his product is in demand?) all while keeping all production firmly here in the US of A. This is your GOLDEN opportunity Vince. Keep it all in America. Hire some student solder jockeys from the local JC and make it happen.Vince said:
Sadly, given your tirade, I doubt Bruce would be open to such a proposition with you.
m0jo
Well-known member
I would like to add a thought about this whole argument before it really blows up
One of the criticisms mentioned: "it's all about the money."
That's the bad thing about these companies .. and then you go on about how you earn less than you did.
So companies should ignore income and make an ethical choice, but you should get the top prize?
Granted, you probably don't get to choose but still .. it's a bit crooked.
One of the criticisms mentioned: "it's all about the money."
That's the bad thing about these companies .. and then you go on about how you earn less than you did.
So companies should ignore income and make an ethical choice, but you should get the top prize?
Granted, you probably don't get to choose but still .. it's a bit crooked.
Voodoo said:
I fail to see the point.
If I could not produce the product and sell it... I would not be in business. If it had to be outsourced.... then it is not a very good product if it cannot stand on it's own merit and probably should be abandoned IMO.
VitaminG
Well-known member
the quality of the product has little do with a company outsourcing to remain competitive. You could manufacture the greatest product in the world that everyone wants to buy, but if you can't price it where your intended market can afford it or where you can compete with similar products, a lot of people will be dreaming about your product and wishing they could buy it while you go out of business.Vince said:
If your average mom'n'pop store didn't carry cheap imported lines to cater for their largest market, beginning musicians and their parents, then they would quickly go out of business and then there wouldn't be a store in that marketplace to carry the higher end US instruments.
But imagine for the "good of the economy", the store owners stuck to their guns and made sure only US stock hung on their walls. Basic economics dictate that it's better to move 10x$200 items a month than to have one $2000 item hanging on the wall for three months. And with the economy as it is, a lot less people can afford to buy the more expensive item. So when those small local stores close down because they aren't shifting enough stock to pay their employees or their rent, the US manufacturers end up making less product because they have less avenues through which to sell them. And the closure of those small stores means that sales staff, managers, cleaners, security, the landlord, have lost their source of income, all of who would have pumped their salary checks back into the local economy.
