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[BigBrewtus]

I was refering to my Mark mod. You really think you are the first to use this font and type of switch? Get over yourself. So it LOOKS similar. Are clones not what you create? Do you not use designs that look just like a Marshall or Vox or Bogner? If you do, then get over yourself. This thread is done and over. It started as a misunderstanding and you guys want to jump on a BASH WAGON. There are many people that are creating their own modded modules. Go bash on them too. If you dont then you arent backing up the words you say.

Don t get me wrong.
I can honestly say that I never cloned some other module, or other modders work. All Salvation modules are designed by Salvation mods as well as its faceplates.

I think nobody will look at my module and mistake it with Soldano amp.
Because it is MTS module based on Soldano amp.
I hope you understand difference between amp, and module based on particular amp.
But somebody can look at Soldano module you linked on Ebay and can mistake it with my Salvado Deluxe module.

If you think it is so easy, to engineer module which sounds like real amp, then use SEARCH function on this forum. You' ll find, that before 2009, when I started to do modifications based on Soldano or Orange, nobody did it. Why?


Peace

Anthony

He didnt clone your work. So nice that you want to claim to be the first that did something. I applaude you. Does that mean no one else should try to create something themselves? Im sure you arent the only person that can Engineer a module. That has nothing to do with someone having a SIMILAR faceplate, oh, and how dare they use switches. Sorry but your ego lost my business. Im sure you could care less.
I do respect people that can mod this modules. I dont trust myself to. I have 2 modded modules that were not the work of a PRO. I love them and dont think it took someone with a buisness to create them. They are not clones they are unique. Now excuse me while I go buy some Walmart brand Cheerios.

 

[salvation]

Enjoy your shopping

Anthony

 

[hyenik]

2bigBrewt:
As I read your articles, I think that you have no problem with my selling "gauge knobs", do you?

 

[BigBrewtus]

2bigBrewt:
As I read your articles, I think that you have no problem with my selling "gauge knobs", do you?

Not at all. I get them made for myself and willing to share at little cost. I only make about what it cost me for materials and shipping. I only want to share the fun. I wouldnt be offended if anyone was wanting to make some for themselves. Funny you should ask. Anthony wanted to see some in person at the Amp Expo for use of his own mod.
Feel free to COPY me as I have no intellectual rights even though before 2010 you didnt see anyone on this forum with them. :wink:

 

[salvation]

2bigBrewt:
As I read your articles, I think that you have no problem with my selling "gauge knobs", do you?

Not at all. I get them made for myself and willing to share at little cost. I only make about what it cost me for materials and shipping. I only want to share the fun. I wouldnt be offended if anyone was wanting to make some for themselves. Funny you should ask. Anthony wanted to see some in person at the Amp Expo for use of his own mod.
Feel free to COPY me as I have no intellectual rights even though before 2010 you didnt see anyone on this forum with them. :wink:

Yes, this is exactly it.
You know I asked you for the knobs.
I wanted to use them for one signature module I am working on.
I asked you, because these knobs are your idea, and I am sure it is not cool to take someone other idea and sell it.

It would be a lot easier for me to do these knobs myself.

But not legit way for me.
This is my point of view, my mindset.
Anthony

 

[SALVAGED]

Maybe I'm blind... I still don't see where anyone copied anything...?? :?

Edit: ...except the Mesa Boogie logo... maybe that should not have been used...

 

[Mike P]

There is no need for all this slamming of a self modders work.

Where did I "slam" a "self-modder's" work?

Just be carefull of your EGOs.

I don't even know what this means.

 

[m0jo]

This has gotten out of hand, mainly because of the mixup between "design" and "circuit design" and "copying" and "stealing"...

I cannot see the pics anymore, so can't judge anything now. (not my preffered way to end an argument, but ok fine)

What it comes down to is this (IMO):
There is some confusion about what is "stealing" or "copying" .. because it seems very close to the "cloning" we do anyways. (please notice how copying and cloning can mean both things! this doesn't help).

So what's the line of difference?
One is trying to get a tone or a circuit into this MTS platform, which requires designing a new circuit that recreates the tone and signal path of the original within the confines of the existing circuit in MTS amps. The other is copying the way someone has done this. (and cashing in on it ...)

The first is a creation, which takes labour, knowledge and thought.. the second is simply stealing without any of that.

The same goes for the graphics.
Recreating the look and feel of a whole amp on a module face that is 184mm by 40mm is not easy, a lot of time can go into it.
But because the end design looks very simple, people often assume it's an "easy" design to create .. which is very skewed.

The stripe Anthony mentioned .. this is unique to the Salvado, to recreate the feel of the SLO.
I can't comment any more on that because the pics are gone, so I'll leave it at that.


@Brewtus specifically:
The comment on ego is a bit over the top.
I hope the above explanation clarifies what we mean by "our design" versus "an SLO based" design.
We don't own the right to create an SLO based design .. but we do own the right to the way we have one that.

Just like Apple doesn't own the rights to making a smartphone (which existed well before they created one), but they do own to some degree how they have done it (the interface and hardware design).

 

[BigBrewtus]

This has gotten out of hand, mainly because of the mixup between "design" and "circuit design" and "copying" and "stealing"...

I cannot see the pics anymore, so can't judge anything now. (not my preffered way to end an argument, but ok fine)

What it comes down to is this (IMO):
There is some confusion about what is "stealing" or "copying" .. because it seems very close to the "cloning" we do anyways. (please notice how copying and cloning can mean both things! this doesn't help).

So what's the line of difference?
One is trying to get a tone or a circuit into this MTS platform, which requires designing a new circuit that recreates the tone and signal path of the original within the confines of the existing circuit in MTS amps. The other is copying the way someone has done this. (and cashing in on it ...)

The first is a creation, which takes labour, knowledge and thought.. the second is simply stealing without any of that.

The same goes for the graphics.
Recreating the look and feel of a whole amp on a module face that is 184mm by 40mm is not easy, a lot of time can go into it.
But because the end design looks very simple, people often assume it's an "easy" design to create .. which is very skewed.

The stripe Anthony mentioned .. this is unique to the Salvado, to recreate the feel of the SLO.
I can't comment any more on that because the pics are gone, so I'll leave it at that.


@Brewtus specifically:
The comment on ego is a bit over the top.
I hope the above explanation clarifies what we mean by "our design" versus "an SLO based" design.
We don't own the right to create an SLO based design .. but we do own the right to the way we have one that.

Just like Apple doesn't own the rights to making a smartphone (which existed well before they created one), but they do own to some degree how they have done it (the interface and hardware design).

I agree with 90% of what you stated. It was all I was trying to relay. There was no one cashing in on anothers design. The white stripes doesnt justify as a stolen design. It doesnt say Salvation or Salvado on the face either. He stated it was his own design of circuit. He was selling off his modules because he doesnt use MTS anymore. Im sure he isnt profiting off of his either. I am sure you can agree when you yourself talk about labor, design, knowledge and thought. He isnt the only person ever to make a Soldano module.
The ego comment was not out of context. I have recieved many approvials via PMs and emails from forum members. I will not appologize for that statement.

 

[Mike P]

The ego comment was not out of context. I have recieved many approvials via PMs and emails from forum members.

If this is truly the case, I no longer have place in this forum.

Good day to all.

 

[m0jo]

I wasn't talking about the white stripes on this faceplate.

Besides that discussion, there is that about the Mesa logo.
Apparently you think that because his original intention was "for own use" that it is fine to sell it later with that logo on it.. It isn't.
You just shouldn't put someone else's logo on your stuff at all, and you definitly shouldn't sell it with that on either.
It's not about the original intention but about the actual fact: selling a module with another company's trademark on it.

Honestly, I don't care much for the "ego" discussion. IMO it was an overstatement, but fine, that's your view.
I wasn't asking for an apology, just clarifying where we come from, because I had the feeling that you didn't understand our side of it.

 

[Daryl]

OK here's my opinion.
I want to say that I am not upset or anything about this, but I think that the point may be getting washed out in the mix.

Copying a trademark and selling: Bad
Copying a patented/trademarked design and selling it: Bad
Copying an unpatentend design for personal use: OK

Ever build a clone pedal, or a tube amp kit?
It's the same exact circuit as the big brands.
For instance Tubedepot sells a sweet 18W Marshall style kit
that is the exact same circuit design as a real Marshall.
All point to point, real easy to build and sweet tones.
Are we still OK?..
Sure...
The world famous Tubescreamer.
I've built one and I know plenty of other people have too.
Still OK?
Sure...
So now we have someone, that hasn't been confirmed to have positively copied any designs at this point, getting railed for it. In fact it was stated that he never even owned a Salvation or Gigmods. As far as the design goes: Of course, you don't sell trademarks that aren't yours. That's a no-brainer. But you are only infringing if you intend on selling that product at a profit with the purpose of using brand recognition to maximize said profits. For personal use, you can do whatever you want.
Stealing the cosmetic designs of amps or modder plates is a very gray area. I mean if the snakeskin stripe was on the mod Alboz made, then we would have more of a solid foundation. But a stripe? (You could make a similar argument about the Gold face, same font as Marshall uses, and Marshall knobs on the Mash-all.) You could say that it was a "tribute" to the Salvado. Would that be OK. Right?
Sure...
That is the whole premise behind the Salvation plates...
(Which are very nice BTW)
They are a tribute to the respective amps they are supposed to sound like.
Taking styling and layout cues from these originals and making something custom. Something that borders on utilizing brand recognition to draw profit. That is totally OK. It's pretty cool actually. The plates are what make it like a candy store when you go to the Salvation website.
Remember that imitation is the highest form of respect.
I really don't think that anyone was trying to steal anyone else's lunch here.
I'm trying to be as diplomatic with this as possible.
So please don't bite my pee-pee off.
I should have heeded Mattfig's warning. LOL Danger!!! Danger Will Robinson!!!

 

[Mike P]

Ever build a clone pedal, or a tube amp kit?
It's the same exact circuit as the big brands.
For instance Tubedepot sells a sweet 18W Marshall style kit
that is the exact same circuit design as a real Marshall.
All point to point, real easy to build and sweet tones.
Are we still OK?..
Sure...
The world famous Tubescreamer.
I've built one and I know plenty of other people have too.
Still OK?
Sure...

No, not really. Actually, not at all.

The reason that companies can legally sell Marshall or Ibanez clones is because the patents have expired.

Why do you think that Mesa/Boogie and Bogner are offering "20th Anniversary Editions" of their most popular amps? It's not because they're "special", it's because they've created a "new" version and now have a patent for another 20 years.

Intellectual Property (I.P.) is a difficult concept for many people to grasp because 99.9% of the world's population doesn't deal with it on a daily basis, whether it's patents, trademarks or copyrights and aren't affected.

But for those that earn their living from I.P., it's not only extremely important that the laws are upheld (i.e. digital piracy) but that those creators are properly compensated.

 

[Daryl]

Ever build a clone pedal, or a tube amp kit?
It's the same exact circuit as the big brands.
For instance Tubedepot sells a sweet 18W Marshall style kit
that is the exact same circuit design as a real Marshall.
All point to point, real easy to build and sweet tones.
Are we still OK?..
Sure...
The world famous Tubescreamer.
I've built one and I know plenty of other people have too.
Still OK?
Sure...

No, not really. Actually, not at all.

The reason that companies can legally sell Marshall or Ibanez clones is because the patents have expired.

Why do you think that Mesa/Boogie and Bogner are offering "20th Anniversary Editions" of their most popular amps? It's not because they're "special", it's because they've created a "new" version and now have a patent for another 20 years.

Intellectual Property (I.P.) is a difficult concept for many people to grasp because 99.9% of the world's population doesn't deal with it on a daily basis, whether it's patents, trademarks or copyrights and aren't affected.

But for those that earn their living from I.P., it's not only extremely important but also their lifeblood.

Dude....You missed the point.
"Copying an unpatentend design for personal use: OK"
Unpatented=not patented for whatever reason.
Including expiration.
You can't patent a mod because it is Bruce's property and licensed to Randall. Therefore any modifications are and always will be "unpatented"unless the patent was purchased or licensed. The only IP holdings in this situation are trademarks and I think I covered that pretty well.
Think before you jump in to attack. Seriously...

 

[Mike P]

Think before you jump in to attack. Seriously...

First off, it wasn't an attack.

Secondly, and no offense personally, it's difficult for me to read single line after single line. It's like a stream of consciousness thing that may make sense to you, but doesn't to me and I blank out. My apologies.

Again, no offense to your writing style.

 

[Daryl]

Think before you jump in to attack. Seriously...

First off, it wasn't an attack.

Secondly, and no offense personally, it's difficult for me to read single line after single line. It's like a stream of consciousness thing that may make sense to you, but doesn't to me and I blank out. My apologies.

Again, no offense to your writing style.

It's cool. It is actually easier to write without making so many breaks. I find it easier to sift through information when it flows vertically. I can take each line and read it as a cluster. Speed reading class warped my brain. :lol:
I like you Mike and I know you got a lot to share. Peace, brother...

 

[SALVAGED]

The ego comment was not out of context. I have recieved many approvials via PMs and emails from forum members.

If this is truly the case, I no longer have place in this forum.

Good day to all.

If you leave, can I have your SG Diablo? heh-heh... just kidding, man... :lol:

 

[RADE01]

Hey MikeP, you're not really leaving are you? You contribute so much valuable info, and I really like that Stonerverb clip you did, it ROCKS!